Manage updates with the Download AppPrizefight (week of October 22)
Microsoft Windows 7 vs. Apple Snow Leopard
Microsoft Windows 7 vs. Apple Snow Leopard
It's not often that the two most popular operating systems get major updates so close to each other, so we couldn't resist throwing them into a cage match together. Already we can hear some of you screaming that Snow Leopard isn't a major update--we know this one's personal! But is Windows 7 nothing more than "Vista done right"?
Microsoft's severe stumble with Vista aside, Windows 7 clearly positions the operating system for the future, with a new look that integrates heavily with the new features. Snow Leopard, too, is geared toward the future, saving you space on your hard drive and including some useful new tricks that Microsoft still lacks.
The judges for this Prizefight hardly shy away from telling you what they think about software, Webware, and the operating systems you need to get to all those goodies. Now, everybody has their opinion on the great Apple versus Microsoft debate, but for a few minutes, suspend your disbelief as they explain which operating system is better and why.
Round 1: Interface and design
Round 1: We start off by checking out the layout, look, and feel of each operating system. Microsoft's come a long way with Windows 7, even when compared with Windows Vista. But how do the great strides it's made hold up against Snow Leopard, which tweaks an already baked and well-received GUI?| player | Josh | Rafe | Seth | the winner |
|---|---|---|---|---|
 Microsoft Windows 7 (Professional) | 4In many ways, Windows 7 still looks a whole lot like Vista, but the new Taskbar with its jump lists and pinning make the OS much easier to use if you've got less screen real estate (like on a laptop). This is especially true if you like to keep a lot of applications running. | 4Windows 7 has major improvements over Vista, like a new icon bar and more flexible window management, but still feels a little cluttered in comparison to the Mac. It hurts to use Aero Shake. While both are really good OSes, personally I am more productive on Windows than on a Mac. | 5Although the Aero theme is from Vista, the features are almost entirely all new. Aero Snap, Aero Peek, and the previews in the touch-screen-friendly Taskbar make this the best-looking Windows yet. However, if you're stuck with Windows 7 Starter, you're going to wonder what all the fuss is about. | 4.3 |
 Apple Mac OS X 10.6.3 Snow Leopard | 4Like Windows 7 is to Vista, Snow Leopard is simply an evolution of Leopard. The best new feature is Dock Expose, which has drastically improved how easy it is to move files between folders and applications. | 4Gorgeous and fluid, although a bit inconsistent. The basics are very straightforward and there are lots of slick and useful UI extras, like Expose and Spaces. Cover Flow for pictures is great. But many of the coolest desktop features aren't obvious. You need a guru by your side to get you beyond beginner level. | 5Just focusing on what's new in Snow Leopard, it's hard to argue that improvements made to Expose, the Dock, and Preview are anything less than cool. Windows 7 could use a large-preview option, especially on laptop monitors. | 4.3 |
Round 2: Reliability and stability
Round 2: Is your operating system more than just a pretty face? It's a close call here, with Windows facing an uphill climb against the ghost of Vista. The judges look at crashes, lags, hanging network issues, and data loss. This matchup is definitely Apple's to lose...| player | Josh | Rafe | Seth | the winner |
|---|---|---|---|---|
| Microsoft Windows 7 (Professional) | 4In my month or so of using the RTM build of Windows 7, it hasn't had a system crash once. Like any other version of Windows though, this varies depending on the the software you're using and what kind of hardware you're running it on. | 5Sturdy, reliable, hasn't crashed on me or hiccuped once. It also updates itself when needed. | 4After 10 months of playing with the beta, release candidate, and release to manufacturing versions of Windows 7, I've not had one crash or data-loss experience. However, that's not to say it's not possible. | 4.3 |
| Apple Mac OS X 10.6.3 Snow Leopard | 4I've been using Snow Leopard since it was released, longer than I've been using Windows 7. I've had three crashes, but traced them all to a beta driver for a new gadget I was testing. I still get spinning Beach Balls of Doom, mostly when trying to access networked drives. | 4Have not had a single OS crash, but the Beach Ball of Wait pops up more than I would like. | 4Snow Leopard's launch hiccups, most notably related to guest account data loss, were quickly fixed. But you can't ignore that they happened. | 4 |
Round 3: Performance and compatibility
Round 3: The most technical round of this Prizefight, Dong Ngo from CNET Labs has provided us with extensive benchmarking on both operating systems. Judges also looked at the kinds of hardware that supported the OS.| player | Josh | Rafe | Seth | the winner |
|---|---|---|---|---|
| Microsoft Windows 7 (Professional) | 4Windows 7 is still Windows, which means you can run a giant catalog of software. It's definitely a leaner beast than Vista was, which is most prevalent when it comes time to start up and shut down. For me, both of these were noticeably faster than the similarly used build of Vista that came on the same machine. | 3Feels snappier than Vista, but in my testing, that might just be due to the Windows 7 installation being newer. Start-up is not even close to as fast I hoped it would be. | 4Starting up and shutting down is faster on Snow Leopard, according to our benchmarks. However, wake-from-hibernation times have been nearly identical, and gamers will appreciate Windows 7's strong gaming support. | 3.7 |
| Apple Mac OS X 10.6.3 Snow Leopard | 4Snow Leopard doesn't feel any faster than Leopard, but some of the improved apps like Mail and Finder are much snappier. I had many problems getting some older apps to work with the new OS--something that's become less of an issue as developers update their apps. | 4Can't argue with the numbers. In a fresh install, OS X is faster to do most things. Historically OS X installations don't suffer performance degradation as badly as Windows setups do. | 4It's hard to argue with those faster boot and shutdown scores. Snow Leopard feels faster than Leopard and the Boot Camp drivers let you run Windows 7. Legacy users are not likely to be thrilled to have to get new hardware to run the new OS, but Apple's hardware path is nothing new. | 4 |
Round 4: Unique features
Round 4: What's it to you? Despite the similarities, Windows 7 and Snow Leopard both do things that the other one can't. The judges take a look at what those things are and make a good-faith effort to compare them as fairly as possible.| player | Josh | Rafe | Seth | the winner |
|---|---|---|---|---|
| Microsoft Windows 7 (Professional) | 4The new window-pinning feature is the cat's meow. It's a nice alternative to giving applications the entire screen, and the way you invoke it is fast, simple, and intuitive. The Aero Shake feature is pretty neat, too, although I prefer just keeping all my windows maximized. | 3Improved Paint app and new .DOCX-writing WordPad are nice. I like the screen clipping and recording tools. Home Group fails, since it's limited to Win 7 PCs, and I miss Windows Movie Maker--so sue me. | 4Windows 7 is so much better than XP and Vista, it's actually fun to use. Aero Snap, the new theme packs and customizations, and the seriously robust desktop search that finds the search terms in your documents are standouts. | 3.7 |
| Apple Mac OS X 10.6.3 Snow Leopard | 5Dock Expose is just plain useful once you know how to use it. It's also really nice to get a full-size preview of each window while it's in Expose by using Quick Look. I'm awarding Snow Leopard a bonus point, too, since it actually gives you back hard-drive space if you're upgrading from an older OS. For me that number was 6GB, which on a laptop is a big deal. | 4QuickTime has basic editing features now--very nice. The screen-recording app is also good. Safari is a slicker browser than IE. Mail.app is very good, and works with Exchange now. Biggest difference: a Mac can run Windows, via Boot Camp. Your move, Microsoft. | 5Snow Leopard comes with more tools out of the box: MS Exchange compatibility, iTunes, iPhoto, Mail, and iMovie. These are high-quality tools, too; if they sucked, Windows would have the edge here. | 4.7 |
Round 5: Value, value, value
Round 5: Going into our final round, Apple has a slight edge over Microsoft. The judges are looking at price, but also at how that price reflects the features, performance, design, and stability you're getting.| player | Josh | Rafe | Seth | the winner |
|---|---|---|---|---|
| Microsoft Windows 7 (Professional) | 3Windows 7 is a great OS, but its pricing model continues to be overly complex and expensive. Users who shelled out the full or upgrade price for Vista just a few years ago need to pay anywhere from $120 to $260 for a license, depending on when they bought Vista and what version of Windows 7 they want. It gets even more spendy for people who are buying the full version. | 2If consumers didn't have a bad taste in their mouths from Vista, Windows 7 would be called Vista SP2 and priced like it: free or really cheap. It is a fine product, but it's overpriced for what it really is. | 5I disagree with Rafe that what you get out of Windows 7 is merely "Vista done right." There's a lot going on that couldn't come with Vista, such as multitouch support for touch screens. However, it's not cheap unless you look for deals. Students can get it for as low as $30. | 3.3 |
| Apple Mac OS X 10.6.3 Snow Leopard | 4If the price of admission were $129, I'd be giving Snow Leopard a 2 here, but since Apple is letting those who had the previous OS (and secretly Tiger, too) upgrade for just $29, it's a no-brainer. It has enough little tweaks and improvements to warrant the price tag. | 3Unlike Windows 7, you cannot buy OS X Snow Leopard as a standalone product. And as a consumer upgrade, Snow Leopard doesn't offer users all that much over Leopard. But just $29? It's a small price to pay for a performance boost. | 4Snow Leopard costs $30 for one computer or $50 for five, and all new machines come with Snow Leopard. I disagree with Microsoft's assertion that Snow Leopard is nothing more than a service pack, but it's definitely not a fully new operating system, either. | 3.7 |
The winner is...
Winner
Apple Mac OS X 10.6.3 Snow Leopard (4.1 pts)
Runner-Up
Microsoft Windows 7 (Professional) (3.9 pts)
Wow, Windows 7. That's mighty close--only 0.2 point away from a tie, but Snow Leopard has savaged you again. Despite this loss, that's a minuscule margin of victory for Apple, and it means that Microsoft seems to have finally regained its footing after Vista's stumbles. Still, according to our editors, Apple's currently putting out the better product, and in the end, it's you users who benefit the most from such intense conflict.
Sorry to hear that my friend
Not having a backup is just plain stupid, no matter what the cause of failure is. Yes, it's Apple's fault the bug does this. Yes, it's also your fault for not having a backup. You should have backups no matter what OS you're using.
1) Who logs into a guest account first after a major operating system upgrade?
2) Who installs a major operating system upgrade without a full backup?
I submit that your first Mac experience was "ruined" primarily by the fact that you did not protect your data. If you continue computing without a backup then you will eventually get burned, regardless of your operating system.
Secondly, and overall, windows always has more problems than mac in daily usage. It has been like that for the last two decades, and it will probably prove to be the same with Windows 7, 8, 9 etc.
Windows users always require more technical support (issues, delays, patches, consultants, etc) than mac users by far.
Mac users do not require reinstallation within the first year... as a matter of fact, windows users require reinstalling windows at least a couple of times every year.
Lastly, operations like synchronization of data and copying files have never been an issue for apple... always very smooth.
In windows, you can create files in places that you can't copy them from... i.e. path length file copy problems; It used to be that you could save an excel file with a bracket in the name, but you could not open it.
good luck with windows... i've made a career thanks to windows deficiencies... looks like i'm still in business.
and, when i go home, i use a mac.
The loser: OS X SL aka the new alpha service pack for OS X Leopard
An OS is supposed to be a medium for running apps, if an OS has barely any apps made for it, then i dont care if it has fancy bubbles and jingles.
the winner: OS X, the faster, more reliable OS
the loser: 7 and all versions of windows which have copied OS X!
In making Snow Leopard, Apple tried to "build a better leopard" as stated by Bertrand Serlet at WWDC 09! Thats what they did because we loved leopard.
Even though we hated Vista, Microsoft decided to reuse it with a few upgrades and a bit more eye candy.
Long story short, windows 7 is the "alpha service pack".
And then there?s HP, a company with one of the best names and proudest histories in the industry. Apple made news this week for the design and tech specs of its all-new iMacs, which start at $1199. HP made news this week for unveiling a Windows 7 launch bundle at Best Buy that includes a desktop PC and two laptops, all for $1199. That might be great for Microsoft, but how is it good for HP that their brand now stands for bargain basement prices?
Performance and compatibility is also a farce, for the same reasons. Snow Leopard runs on a lineup of about 10 computers, all of which Apple sells. Windows runs on any computer you can build that meets the minimum requirements, meaning that not only does it run on millions of differently configured computers, but it also runs thousands of games and applications on those machines. OS X's software library is pitifully small compared to what is available for Windows.
It's too bad nobody at CNET had the guts to bring up these finer points, and instead just jumped on the bandwagon, singing praise for the OS they want to win, and not the one that actually delivers the finer product. Even Windows XP, released almost a decade ago, beats Snow Leopard in the categories I mentioned above. This article is a sham.
Running bad software (the OS, not the apps) on millions of problem-prone machines just doesn't appeal to everyone.
EVERYONE I know that uses as "PC" has lost data, crashed drives, etc. (they pay me to fix that, too). I've never personally had a fatal crash of a hard drive in any of my Macs.
Look: the OS is built for a platform. That platform is always limited one way or another. Criticizing the (much better designed, more stable and secure) platform that OS X serves is just plain silly.
GROW UP FANBOY!
A Mac running Snow Leopard can also run Windows Vista (or any other flavor of M$ OS) and almost any flavor of Linux at the same time! Just add Parallels Desktop or VMWare Fusion (about 80 bucks for either, plus the cost of the Windows or Linux OS). Then you can have the best of all worlds in one box, and run them all together, provided you have the RAM and HD space. I run XP Pro on my Mac all the time, for those few custom corporate apps I have to use. Meanwhile, I use Apple's creative software to do my job (training content development).
The main benefits of Apple hardware are its stability, longevity, and durability. I know this because I use both platforms daily in my work. Before Apple Intel machines, I replaced my Mac about half as often as I replaced my PC, and I'll still take a two year old Mac vs a two year old PC any day of the week. My ten-year-old G4 towers are still great web surfing and homework machines for my kids, although they do complain about gaming speed (when they're not on the Wii). Of course, a new Mac would be a perfect game machine, because it can run all platforms, and therefore, all games.
The more important benefit of the Mac platform, though, is the total, thorough integration of the software with the hardware. Apple stuff works so well because it is designed as a complete system. There's only one party to blame when it fails, so they get it right, more often, in more ingenious ways.
Security is a real plus with the Mac. In my 25 years of Mac use, I've never had any virus or malware problems. In that same time, I've had more problems with PC Malware than I can care to recount, despite running corporate anti-virus apps that supposedly update themselves automatically. That anti-crap stuff takes a HUGE performance hit on PCs. When I'm not networked at all, I turn it off and watch Windows speed up 20 to 50%.
Face it, MS reign is not strong. Too many people have seen the light.
People who see the light use computers as a tool. Which OS depends on what your job is, and which environment you would rather work in. All can do the job anymore.
However Windows 7 and Snow Leopard are both somewhere between a service pack and a full featured OS, but at least Apple is honest about it and sells it for just $29 where Windows 7 is still way overpriced (but then again Apple desktops and laptops are still a little pricey, but not as bad as it used to be with the recent updates).
Above all though, this time around there is no glaringly bad OS on the market right now so I guess thats good.
This so called prizefight shows only that Rafe likes Macs, something he makes clear in all his shows. Like Fred says before me this prizefight is a sham.
That is just one of the advantages of buying a Mac, they are always on the forefront of technology changes. My Powermac G5, which will be 7 soon, has a superdrive for burning DVD's, wifi and bluetooth. I also have never spent a dime on virus or spyware software and have been virus free on my Macs since 1989. And before you point out that my G5 won't run Snow Leopard, I will tell you I am still running Tiger, because unlike Vista which was a disaster that had to be fixed, it works perfectly. Additionally, I bought this G5 used, something I would never do with a pc "because you don't know where it's been", and at a significant discount (50%) over new. Keep in mind, I do use my computer to work with and generate income. If I were a "gamer" I might feel differently, who needs income when Mom doesn't charge rent for the basement.
If all you do is look at the Ghz speed of your processor and how much memory is in the computer you can always find pcs that run at about the same for a lot less, but the key is in the quality of the components this is where Macs shine. The quality of the electronics is important to resolve all those windows issues like when the wifi times out or when the memory has errors or the disk drives fail, all of which mac users really experience.
As an example, I give you my past 3 laptops: 1) IBM Thinkpad, price $2700. 2) GamePC custom gaming laptop, price $3300 3) Macbook Pro, $2200.
It's true that Apple generally doesn't offer cheap computers, but if you buy high end PCs anyway, buying a Mac is almost no different.
I've never bought an Apple desktop, I've always built my own. I don't need a dual Xeon workstation, and it made no economic sense to me to buy a desktop with the screen built into it. That said, I easily spend as much building my own PCs as I would if I bought the highest end iMac. I'm actually somewhat tempted by the new 27" because it can be used as a display, and it's actually using a real, honest to god, desktop Core i7 (in the only model I'd consider). I probably won't, but for the first time ever I am thinking about it.
Anyway, the perception that Macs are over-priced is only based on the availability of really cheap PCs, which I'd never buy anyway. Which of course, is not to say that PCs are cheap crap. There are good ones. As with all commodities, you get what you pay for.
Most of the Macs for sale on Craigs list are scams in my area. It's amazing how many people bought one and then were given another for their bithday. The non scams typicaly are asking more than I can get it for new.
Maybe a PC a few years old cant do those things but my 7 year old 20" iMac could do all three just fine straight from the store from the day I bought it, and it still still runs great. This is why you just dont get it. You dont have all the facts. Take a little time and check out the specs more closely. I will be grabbing one of the new 27" imacs because the added screen real estate will save me hours of time processing files and because my photo work has become more graphic intensive. (much larger RAW photo files as dslrs have improved).
My old Powerbook G4 has a dual-layer DVD burner, 802.11g Wifi and a Bluetooth radio, and it was made in 2004. It also works perfectly and still has a battery life greater than many new laptops. Rather foolishly, I decided to retire that G4 about a year ago, and get a Toshiba running Vista. What I ended up with, between the bloatware Toshiba installed and problems with Vista itself, was a horribly slow and unreliable computer--shortly after I finally got all of the bloatware off, Microsoft released a security update that hosed Vista. I couldn't even throw XP on it because Toshiba never released XP hardware drivers for my model; I could only reload Vista using the restore DVD which of course reinstalled all the bloatware. Ultimately, I threw Ubuntu on that Toshiba (works great, BTW) and picked up a MBP.
Now that all being said, I have a desktop running Windows 7 RC, and I can say from experience that it is much more reliable and faster than Vista.
Windows can never outperform Mac OS for one reason only - their registry system makes every single piece of software and in turn every computer into a bloated super heavy monster, that hardly moves.
The features in Mac will be always Unique and One of a Kind. Now for example is a the multi-touch mouse. Yesterday it was a Dock, Dashboard, iCal, iTunes, Time Machine, Preview...more and more...
It's all about Creativity, which Windows never had and will never have.
1. So what SL runs only on macs? Not my fault you don't got the cash to spring for one. Don't hate. Seriously, windows runs on all PC- including macs. But so what? And (again i say this) APPLE DOESN"T MAKE LOW END PC's. That means Apple will NEVER focus it's attention on the low end. Ever. The best you can get from them in a Mac Mini. So stop with the BS that Windows PC's are cheaper... cheaper = less value. Take a look at Falcon Northwest or Alienware for higher end windows. They also don't sell PC's for $400.00.
2. True... Windows has a huge software library. And it beats Mac's hands down in games. But guess what, I can run ANY game I want on my Mac using Boot Camp. And again, stop with the BS. Every piece of software that's available for Windows I can run either virtually or through Boot Camp on my Mac. Oh and lets not forgot about the 1000's of UNIX/LINUX apps macs run. Since Mac is a UNIX box.
3. People buy mac's for the same reason people buy Lexus or BMW's. Sure I can drive just as well in a beat up Chevy that cost me 300 bucks. But a BMW is a finer ride.
So stop the hate against people who are want to spend more for a "fancier" experience. You don't want it, don't buy it.
And just to be clear.. I'm a member of MSDN and have been running 7 since beta. I like Windows 7. That's right a mac user (primarily) admits to digging Windows 7. It's about time MS released a good solid OS. I hope it's a huge hit. And I'm using it. Both via Boot Camp (for gaming) and virtually for development and anything else I need to run on windows.
It runs Windows 7 like a champ. I have, like crag, run it dual-boot style and virtually and it's way less resource hungry than Vista.
That doesn't explan the orginal Apple, let alone the shuffle. Apple will do what apple will do. Right now that's high end laptops and an assortment of desktops including low end.
In response to number two, you're saying "Macs are cool because they run windows." Nice argument, except that has nothing to do with what we're talking about here. You can't say that OSX is superior because you can dual boot the hardware to windows for your games. Furthermore, many of us have fully working Leopard OSX86 hackintoshes running without a hitch, but we're not rubbing your face in it. Simply stated, it's a nice novelty, but I still use Windows when I need to get **** done.
Stop hating on a valid point, sir. I clicked on this article solely because I was expecting a terrible article and I wanted to see if/how they would get themselves out of it.
2. Boot Camp is nothing more than dual booting, it's still Windows that you're running in the end. It's not your Mac that's giving you access to this software library. Anyone can dual boot, Apple just makes it less painful, and they have to to get more users. You still have to buy a Windows license to use its enormous library of software. Unix apps don't come close to rivaling Windows, sorry.
3. See 1, since you seem to be oblivious to the fact that there are powerful and nice looking Windows laptops that are less expensive than Apple's Macs.
...so you're saying you have to buy a copy of windows anyways?
When does the spending ever end with a mac?
No thanks.
1. Cheap doesnt mean less value.
2.Agree.
3.Ok. Personally I would buy for value, and money.
I like Macs, I do not not like Apple's model. Once, they already killed themselves with it. Remember Apple used to dominate the PC market. But they decided to make the platform closed and IBM PCs and Microsoft took over. It will happen again. No one company will be able to compete against all in the marketplace. It's just a matter of time...
Again I am not a fan of MS at all. I don't know what OS is actually better, it's all very personal in my opinion. But I like a more open approach. And I also do not like when fact are misrepresented...
This prizefight seems like a OSX vs. Windows instead of SL vs. 7. You're better than this CNET!
I am typing this right now on a 1700 dollar macbook pro. Put a SSD in, the crappy sata II controller that Apple PURPOSELY downgraded to sata I was unusable. The same drive worked fine in a year old macbook. Apple refused to admit hardware is defective even though there is a 90+ page thread on their support forum with all users with same problem. My last macbook pro overheated when stressed and kernel paniced. At my job, one generation of imac core2duos gave graphic artifacts and became unusable. 6 out of 6 of them. We had 100 imac g5's of which nearly every one blew out the power supply.
So is Apple a fancier machine... if you define fancy in looking all slick then yeah, but hardware wise they are garbage. This is coming from someone that probably had more macs than you will ever own, and that is solely due to the fact that OSX is the most usable Unix machine out there and I develop for unix.
This so called prizefight shows only that Rafe likes Macs, something he makes clear in all his shows. Like Fred says before me this prizefight is a sham.
Use a spell checker so you won't include 'apperently' and 'knifes' and 'comprable' in your posts.
By creating software that works with their hardware, Mac just works!
Ps. Mac forever ><
I like the productivity software that comes with the mac. It certainly isn't as great as applets would have you believe, but it's light years ahead of what windows offers out of the box. Speaking of out of the box, it's a shame cnet reviewers are so damn desktop-centric. Join the 21st century kids! There's google apps, live apps ... and a plethora of browsers which far better on windows' machines than either IE or Safari.
IE is now my "backup" web-browser. but i literally have never had to use it, ever since i went to Firefox. it's just so much faster, better, and "lighter" on my computer's resources, than memory-hogging IE.
Even a mac lover wont accept this...apple gives more value than windows7??Great comedy...
And compatibility too..Can Snow Leopard run applications created for apple OS in the year 1995??
Windows can do that!!
i rest my case, your honor!!!!
its called aero peek you biased ********
http://www.apple.com/macosx/what-is-macosx/quick-look.html
Reliability and Stability:
1. Josh suffered numerous crashes and still gets the 'spinning beach balls of doom' whereas he states that Windows hasn't crashed once, yet he rates both the same??
2. Seth states Windows 7 has not suffered a single data-loss experience whereas Leopard suffered guest account data loss on its startup and that he can't ignore that that happened, but he rates both the same??
Performance and Stability:
1. Rafe marks down Windows 7 because even though its snappier now, historically Windows installations suffer performance degradation. I have been running Windows 7 for many many months and my performance has not decreased one iota, even with multiple development tools installed. Review the actual OS, not what you anticipate based on previous versions Rafe.
Unique Features:
1. Josh: Snow Leopard taking less space than its previous iteration does not equal a feature. Windows 7 is also leaner, where are its bonus points?
2. Rafe: Windows Movie Maker has been ommitted as many consumers don't need or want it, but it is available for free via Windows Update so it's not excluded from the OS. I wouldn't mark Windows 7 down for making movie maker a voluntary option! He also gives bonus points to Leopard for having Safari has a browser, while ommitting the fact that Windows users have the option of not installing IE and choosing from any browser, including Safari. In Europe, users will be given the option upon install.
3. Seth: actually marks Leopard up for having MS Exchange compatibility, already native to Windows. Another bonus is iTunes, also available on Windows. All the other apps have Windows alternatives as well, but I do not have enough experience to compare the rest side-by-side. Still, Leopard hardly deserves a one-up in this department for having the tools pre-installed. Windows users have options and flexibility to choose which tools they need.
Value, Value Value:
1. Rafe: doesn't realize that Windows 7 is a much bigger upgrade over Vista than the minor Snow Leopard upgrade. In general, value-wise, you have a lot more PC options with Vista.
Snow Leopard is a fine operating system no doubt, but so is Windows 7 and if anything they are at least a tie. There is a clear bias in some of the scoring here.
Second, Snow Leopard is a major upgrade as the whole kernel was rewritten.
"Josh suffered numerous crashes and still gets the 'spinning beach balls of doom' whereas he states that Windows hasn't crashed once, yet he rates both the same??"
Josh's actualy statement - ?I've been using Snow Leopard since it was released, longer than I've been using Windows 7. I've had three crashes, but traced them all to a beta driver for a new gadget. I still get spinning Beach Balls of Doom, mostly when trying to access networked drives.?
Did you actually read and comprehend Josh?s comments? Not ?numerous crashes,? only three. And they were due to a beta driver for a new gadget. Like that's never happened with Windows?
I honestly don?t care if you like W7 better than SL. But I do care when people distort the facts.
The review also shouldn't have been testing any beta driver driven gadgets on a review system. Was he also using this gadget on Windows 7? If he did, he doesn't mention a crash. Whatever happened in previous iterations of Windows is irrelevant, the review is about Windows 7.
@TuJuMaster: please find me a source that states that the entire kernel was scrapped and rewritten. Components of it were rewritten and others optimized, but it was not scrapped and rewritten in its entirety any more than Windows 7 was. I tried to find a source for this myself, but apart from what I just stated, all I could find was 100's of articles on how the Snow Leopard kernel does not run by default in 64-bit and will not be able to do so on many machines until either their firmware is updated or a new Mac bought. If this is true (and I didn't delve too deep into it), then the value segment needs further reevaluating.
You are right that Windows doesn't support Exchange Sync out of the box. I was under the impression Windows Mail supported it but am incorrect. My mistake, I should've checked that. Have always had Office installed so never needed to. As a side point - even though its no defence - if you are trying to connect to exchange on a corporate network, you're almost certainly going to have office. If you are going to connect remotely, then Windows Mail CAN connect to exchange server using IMAP or POP3 provided your administrator supports it. Security in most companies will prevent you syncing from outside the corporate network using exchange server unless they've authorised you to use VPN on your personal machine, which is highly doubtful at most companies.
windows has BUILT-IN support for exchange.
Windows doesn't come with Exchange built in; you have to purchase a copy of Office first to get it.
No, by "cheaper" we mean we can go to Newegg and part out all the hardware in any given Mac and buy it for LESS MONEY, because we're not paying a premium for Apple's brand identity and industrial design. Less money for same hardware = greater value.
"I can run ANY game I want on my Mac using Boot Camp."
Translation: "I can run any game I want on my Mac using WINDOWS". Yes, Mac PLUS Windows run more software than Mac or Windows alone, but that's hardly a fair comparison.
For better or worse, Windows is the de facto standard software platform of the personal computer era AND it runs on off-the-shelf hardware. Just to get into the Mac platform you have to buy overpriced hardware from a boutique manufacture, and then you're stuck with a niche OS which entire categories of developers ignore. I love the fact that OSX is built on Linux (Microsoft was originally a Unix vendor, which makes the DOS shell all the more shameful), but it's not enough to make up for the platform's disadvantages.
"I can run any game I want on my Mac using WINDOWS".
Assuming I even want to seriously game, yes I can run the game using Windows. Though all games from Blizzard target both platforms. And so does Eve and a few others. But Yeah, I'll agree.. if you a gamer go Windows. No point even going Mac, unless you want the Mac experience and don't mind rebooting to game.
Oh and Mac was built on UNIX not Linux. There's a difference. And other then var/business apps everything else I need has a Mac version. For those that don't (like Peachtree) there's virtual.
I don't buy Macs because of their overall popularity or some type of "fanbois" hypnosis or from a sense of elitism or snobbishness. I buy them because I have had great success with them for many years and I believe them to offer great overall value. I also welcome the complete freedom from viruses and such for many years without wasting CPU cycles and churning HDDs running anti-virus crapware. But you are welcome to go with the "de facto standard" if that makes you happy.
OSX is not built on Linux. OSX is built on BSD which is built from System V, which in affect means OSX has limited functionality, programmability, more binary blogs, less supported hardware and such. The DOS shell has only the word 'shell' in common with the Thompson Shell, or subsequent shells. I have always thought the key differences between Linux and Windows is the type of kernel and how Windows doesn't believe in standards of operation.
Bottom Line: HARDWARE
1) While you can get MACS with very good hardware, you can NEVER get the best hardware on the market.
2) The cost for NEAR top of line hardware with a MAC is insane. I priced out a MAC below on their website. I am stunned. The damage is worth than I thought.
One 2.93GHz Quad-Core Intel Xeon
8GB (4x2GB)Mac Pro RAID Card
640GB 7200-rpm Serial ATA 3Gb/s
640GB 7200-rpm Serial ATA 3Gb/s
640GB 7200-rpm Serial ATA 3Gb/s
640GB 7200-rpm Serial ATA 3Gb/s
ATI Radeon HD 4870 512MBTwo 18x SuperDrivesNone
Apple Mouse
Apple Keyboard with Numeric Keypad (English) and User's Guide
Glad it includes a User Guide (cough).
Yes, 4 hard drives for RAID 10.
Cost: $4,849 (Free Shipping, how cool?)
I have virtually the same rig in a PC running RAID 10 with 4 hard drives built over 1 year ago.
My Cost: $900, not to mention I overclock with an aftermarket cooler.
So, no thanks. I think I"ll save $4000.
This absurd price also begs the question:
Can't Windows 7 Start and Boot faster than Snow Leopard if I get faster hardware, yet somehow spend way less money? Resounding YES of course.
I'm gonna bet you've got a "desktop" machine (maybe a cheap core 2 quad? ) and "desktop" components.
The Mac Pro is *not* a "desktop".
I'm the IT director at a game development studio. We buy a lot of Xeon workstations (not Macs) and servers. They are *not* "desktops" and they are *NOT* cheap.
I'm sure your glorified PC is great, but I'm also sure it's not in the same class as a Mac Pro, or any other Xeon workstation/server.
I have done the same.
In fact, I just upgraded my rig in prep for W7 and if I add up all the parts I have spent over the last 4years -2 CPUS, 2 mobos, RAM, Plus the parts that I migrated -2x 24 Monitors, 2x DVDR, 2 Geforce GPU w/1.GB each, 4.5TB of storage, large format Pro color printer, case, XP sp3, AND Window 7 Pro brings my total expense for allthat to $3,684.
My current rig's stats are double those of the rig you listed and apart from a temporary NIC driver issue, I have had a completely event/headache free time in those 4 year.
Given these $5000 I'd be very much tempted to go broke for ASUS Z8PE-D12X (dual-socket), 2x X5500, 12 or 24GB DDR3-1066 as a base, and live happily with 2-4 times higher perf (before switching to 2k3 or 2k8 server). With some more digging (as in not paying Newegg's prices :-) this should be doable for $5000.
I'm sure that a lot of people reading this will be able to push it even further by questioning more assumptions and reducing more waste. Actually it would be fun to try - maybe we'll have 2,3,4 extra efficient, no-fluff configs by the end.
Sorry, go back to your PC junk and I'll enjoy my luxurious, better-performing Mac.
Also when upgrading XP you do NOT have to "wipe" your drive. When you install Windows 7 on an XP system, it transfers all your files and folders to C:/Windows.Old. Once you boot up to your Windows 7 system, crack open Windows.Old and restore your files. BUT you do have to reinstall your programs due to the registry being wiped.
you shouldn't DESERVE to use a computer, if you're so damn lazy to do EVEN THAT.
hello, and welcome to REAL LIFE, peabrain. computers were made BY GEEKS, FOR GEEKS, and for GEEK'S USE PRIMARILY. you should have at least SOME basic knowledge as to how to run a computer, and do the necessary things you need to do on it, in order to run it.
right now you're pretty much saying, "i want to use a car that has manual-transmission on it. but i don't know how to use manual transmission. not to mention, i dont know how to start the car, nor change the tires in case i get a flat, nor open the gas-tank if i run out of gasoline, nor turn the steering wheel, nor do i know what any of the gauges behind the steering-wheel mean, nor any of the other stuff. [i just want a car that will drive me to where i want to go, just by me opening the car door, and sitting in the damn driver's-seat!!!] "
lazy bastard.
you shouldn't DESERVE to use a computer, if you're so damn lazy to do EVEN THAT.
hello, and welcome to REAL LIFE, peabrain. computers were made BY GEEKS, FOR GEEKS, and for GEEK'S USE PRIMARILY. you should have at least SOME basic knowledge as to how to run a computer, and do the necessary things you need to do on it, in order to run it.
right now you're pretty much saying, "i want to use a car that has manual-transmission on it. but i don't know how to use manual transmission. not to mention, i dont know how to start the car, nor change the tires in case i get a flat, nor open the gas-tank if i run out of gasoline, nor turn the steering wheel, nor do i know what any of the gauges behind the steering-wheel mean, nor any of the other stuff. [i just want a car that will drive me to where i want to go, just by me opening the car door, and sitting in the damn driver's-seat!!!] "
>><<
that was my reply to "Something_wicked"'s comment "My pc's are running on XP. I have to wipe them both, pay Microsoft $199 (speaking of a Microsoft taxe, do they offer family packs, BTW?) and spent the better part of the day installing Windows, fave progs en restoring my data? Don't think so." , by the way.
Windows 7 offers to backup all your existing data to an external hard or flash drive and then reimport all your data after installation. Better part of one day for a much smoother and up-to-date experience for years to come. Doesn't sound too bad to me. Trust me it's worth it.
xp installation takes about an hour at the upper range if you are doing the COMPLETE install and format it.
i do fairly lengthy installs on computers at work on a routine basis, and to go from deleting the partition to ready to go to a user with all the previous data can be done in about 4-6 hours.
Wasn't that one of Apple's most successful ad campaigns? Wasn't "PCs crash all the time!" the most cited reason to get OSX back in the day?
Give OSX all the extra points you want in "value" and "unique features," but it looks like the "beach ball" has finally supplanted the "blue screen."
I love how Windows koolaid drinkers make uneducated comparisons. For example, they claim that Bootcamp is virtualization. When they are proven wrong, they claim that apple wrote the windows drivers. When they are proven wrong there, they claim that Windows runs faster on PCs. Funny thing about that is, they claim that macs are PCs.
Now, they are comparing the beachball to the BSOD. Hillarious. They don't even know what the beachball is.
I have never heard a single user claim that:
1. Bootcamp is virtualization: if they claim this, you came across an ignorant one
2. Drivers: apple distributes a driver package for use with bootcamp and the locked down specs of its hardware. To what degree they refine these drivers I have no idea, but they do take responsability for them. It's the same way Graphics Cards manufacturers distribute their own set of optimized drivers, even though you can still download the official NVidia drivers should you prefer.
3. BootCamp running Windows I would assume is just like any other PC running Windows. When you strip off the Apple logo and take out Mac OS X a Mac essentially becomes a PC. The statement that a PC runs Windows better than a Mac is retarded because a 'PC' can refer to millions of different configurations whereas a Mac is locked down.
To begin with, 7 was beta-tested worldwide for a year; Snow Leopard was not, and still it's been more stable for me than 7, in just the 3 days I've used 7.
Not to mention the huge FAIL with student upgrades...
Give 7 a few weeks, and the problems will come bubbling to the surface like swamp gas.
Ahh, have you checked the new lately? Apple posting record profits, selling over 3 million macs last quarter? Look, as a mac user i don't want Apple to take much more market share. I like being 6/7%. That way all the bs targets you and not me. :)
Apple is in the consumer market. And they make the best notebook for that market. Period. I don't see many consumers buying IBM Thinkpads. Business' do. And Apple is cool with that.
Oil companies posted record profits as well. It just meant that prices were high. Apple's prices are high. Their users are more affluent than Joe Windows. Your snobby attitude about "your market share" is actlly the market they have captured that can and does pay more into the coffers.
Apple does not make the best notbook by any stretch. They make a qualiy one. I'll take a Thinkpad Hackintosh over a real Mac any day for that very reason. (Getting OS X working isn't so easy outside the Apple universe but I'll keep plugging away).
You can buy mid ranged and high end PCs as well.
Also, whenever you want to purchase a new PC, you can always purchase the best hardware available if you have the budget. On a Mac you're stuck with whatever was available when they created the latest version of Mac. Of course, with Win 7 your ease of use argument is out the window too.
So, with a PC you get better stability, just as easy to use, and way better value.
Maybe you should be checking YOUR facts MickeyMac?
and wow apple posting record profits.
guess wht microsoft are the biggest software company in the world.
so that doesnt mean anything.
and ibm thinkpads may not be used by many business but hp are and they are a far better manufacture then apple
Macs just WORK.