Prizefight (week of September 30)

Zune HD vs. iPod Touch

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Zune HD vs. iPod Touch

Once a year, we get a chance to put two longtime heavyweight rivals in the ring in a fight for portable media player supremacy. The history of Zune versus iPod Prizefights is long and bloody, filled with enough cutting criticism to send devout fans on both sides of the ring into fits.

This year's iPod vs. Zune Prizefight is more closely matched than ever, showcasing a Zune HD that has been pleasantly surprising critics from all over the tech world, and a third-generation iPod Touch that is known more for what it doesn't have (a camera) than for the few new features it brings.

As always, our Prizefight judges are some of CNET's most opinionated when it comes to portable media players. So strap yourself in, suspend your own judgments for a few minutes, and let our CNET editors do the work for you as they argue over which device is worth your money.

Round 1: Navigation

In round one, we examine the interface of the MP3 player. Touch screens are cool, but making them intuitive and responsive is harder than it seems. Both the Zune and the Touch take advantage of similar capacitive, multitouch screen technology, but the user interface on each is quite different. Which interface makes more sense?
player Donald Jasmine Brian the winner
Zune HD (32GB - platinum)Zune HD (32GB - platinum) 5Being able to match the iPod Touch is amazing enough, but for including innovative navigation features such as Quickplay, Pins, History, and on-the-fly playlist creation, Microsoft deserves big praise. Plus, the overall experience is more playful than the iPod. 4The Zune HD interface is really, really cool looking, and I love the scrolling text and artist photos on the playback screen. But it's not quite as intuitive as the Touch interface. There's no shuffle all playback option or dedicated volume--kind of important for a player that stresses music so much. 4Navigation the Zune HD is great, but it's just not as easy as the Touch--but by only a smidgen. Also has multitouch functionality. 4.3
Apple iPod Touch (third generation, 32GB)Apple iPod Touch (third generation, 32GB) 5Navigation on the Touch is brilliant, fast, intuitive, fluid, methodical, and consistent from menu to menu. Compared with the Zune, though, the experience is a little dry. 5The iPod Touch interface is a no-brainer. It doesn't have the "wow" appeal of the Zune HD, but it's exceedingly straightforward and I appreciate the dedicated volume switch. Plus, the option to have tactile playback controls built into headphones is a nice touch. 5Still has the best navigation for every function from the operating system, to the media player with its multitouch. 5

Round 2: Sexiness

You don't want to throw $300 at a product that you're embarrassed to be seen with. It's almost assumed that any Apple product will take the sexiness round, but Microsoft may have finally have a hottie on the hands.
player Donald Jasmine Brian the winner
Zune HD (32GB - platinum)Zune HD (32GB - platinum) 5The Zune is the hottest product I've seen all year, and it is one of the first touch-screen devices I've used that doesn't immediately conjure iPhone comparisons. The OLED screen gives me goose bumps and its aluminum body feels like it fell off the set of "Battlestar Galactica." 5Hawt. Love the brushed aluminum color options, superstylish Zune Originals etchings, and gloriously defined OLED screen. Plus, it's more pocket-friendly than the iPod Touch. 4Very attractive, with an industrial edge to it. Obviously took design cues from the iPod Touch after its first attempt. Have customizable back plates as well. 4.7
Apple iPod Touch (third generation, 32GB)Apple iPod Touch (third generation, 32GB) 4The iPod Touch has a beautiful design, but it hasn't changed a bit from last year and still has an iPhone look-a-like vibe. You won't find a slimmer portable media player, but it won't turn as many heads as the Zune. 4No doubt about it: that ample screen and polished chrome backside make the Touch a hottie, but it, frankly, seems just a tad dull and dated next to the Zune HD. 5Top notch sexy. It's the slimmest, sleekest gadget right now. 4.3

Round 3: Compatibility

This is a subjective take on each MP3 player's compatibility with software, file formats, and services we like to use. The Zune and the iPod Touch are both known for their inflexibility when it comes to computer software. Relatively speaking, though, let's figure out which one plays nice with the most stuff.
player Donald Jasmine Brian the winner
Zune HD (32GB - platinum)Zune HD (32GB - platinum) 2I know Macs still don't hold a major share of the computer market, but everyone I show the Zune to seems utterly heartbroken that it won't work on Mac. Even PC users have reason to be bummed that they can only use one program to load content. Give me Last.fm support and I'll add a point, OK, Microsoft? 4The Zune Marketplace is about as pretty as one could hope from a jukebox-music store, and like iTunes, it offers a fair amount of video content. Plus, you have that all-important subscription component. Keeping it from perfection is a lack of native Mac support. 3The Zune Marketplace is PC only, so they won't be winning over curious Mac users. AAC, MP3, and WMA support. Its catalog of media content is a lot smaller compared with iTunes. It has an excellent hybrid subscription service. 3
Apple iPod Touch (third generation, 32GB)Apple iPod Touch (third generation, 32GB) 5The iPod Touch works with Rhapsody now (sort of), streams Internet radio, works on Mac or PC, and has a few million accessories to play with. It can't play WMA or WMV, but personally I don't care. Wi-Fi music, video, and podcast downloads make software limitations less of an issue. 4iTunes 9 is a big improvement over its predecessor in terms of look and feel, and I certainly appreciate its vast music and--more importantly--video catalog. Plus, it's compatible with my Mac. However, limited file format support and no subscription music option take it down one notch. 4Apple is closed off with the iTunes software for iPods and nothing else. But does it matter with its market dominance and the largest media catalog? It supports major file formats, but not WMA. 4.3

Round 4: Sound and science

In the fourth round, we consider sound quality, storage capacity, bonus features, battery life, and any other wonders of science.
player Donald Jasmine Brian the winner
Zune HD (32GB - platinum)Zune HD (32GB - platinum) 3The Zune's sound quality can hold up to the iPod Touch, but it doesn't do anything to push beyond it. I mean, even a $40 Sansa Clip offers a 5-band custom EQ. No Bluetooth, but just look at that awesome OLED screen. 5It's true that the Zune HD's screen isn't as big for video-viewing purposes and there is a very limited selection of apps, but for me, this is a music player and it does that exceedingly well. It has fantastic audio quality and solid audio battery life. 4Zune had a slight edge in sound quality. Web browser is very good, but not at the Safari level. FM radio still works great and being able to dock it with your TV is nice, even if it's a $89 add-on. There's no app store here. 4
Apple iPod Touch (third generation, 32GB)Apple iPod Touch (third generation, 32GB) 3Neither of these players really affords much in the way of tweaking the sound, nor do they include good earbuds. The iPod Touch does offer Bluetooth support, though. Also, I like how the light sensor can automatically adjust screen brightness. 5Maybe its sound quality isn't the greatest, but I don't use the iPod Touch for music. The selection of videos, games, and other apps really takes it home for me, and its battery life is decent for all of that. Plus, there's a 64GB option, which is great. 5More than a media player, it's a pocket-computer with best mobile Web browser. There's voice control and recording, and the App Store and quantity of apps...no contest yet. 4.3

Round 5: Value

Last, but definitely not least, we consider the price of the MP3 player measured against its features, design, and performance.
player Donald Jasmine Brian the winner
Zune HD (32GB - platinum)Zune HD (32GB - platinum) 3Without a 16GB iPod Touch from Apple, the Zune HD's $219 model is sitting pretty next to the $199 Touch with half the capacity. But without the near-infinite extensibility of the iTunes App Store, the Zune HD won't retain its value as well as the Touch. 5More gigabytes for your money gives the Zune HD an edge in my book. And, yes, you do have to pay $15 per month for a Zune Pass to really appreciate the device, but considering that includes 10 song downloads per month you get to keep, I think that's pretty much a steal. 4At $289 for 32GB, the Zune HD doesn't have all the features of the iPod Touch, but it's still a solid value. The Zune Pass service costs $15, but you get 10 downloads per month--which one of the best. However, it adds $180 per year to the total cost. 4
Apple iPod Touch (third generation, 32GB)Apple iPod Touch (third generation, 32GB) 4I know 8GB isn't a lot, but Apple's capability to bring an App Store-capable device down to $199 is a huge value. Even at $299, all those games, apps, movie rentals, and Bluetooth support add up to a great bargain. 4The iPod Touch is pricey, but you do get a lot for your money, so it's a fairly solid value. A good selection free apps helps it out. 4It's $299 for the 32GB with an updated processor and voice controls. Its functionality goes beyond what any other player on the market can do. 4

The winner is...

Winner

Runner-Up

Zune HD (4 pts)

Zune HD

Apple iPod Touch (third generation) (4.4 pts)

Apple iPod Touch (third generation)
Oh Zune HD--close, but no cigar. We haven't seen a Zune versus iPod Prizefight this close since 2007. Unfortunately, in spite of Microsoft's tremendous effort, the Zune HD just can't catch a real lead on the iPod Touch. That said, clearly there are going to be people who will prefer the Zune HD's more streamlined purpose, gorgeous screen, and drool-worthy Zune Pass music service. But when push comes to shove, our editors believe the iPod Touch is a better product for most people.
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346 comments

Join the conversation! Add your comment
Seriously, the ipod touch won on the interface round? What????? What the hell. I'm sorry but c'mon you guys, what the hell.
Posted by lindtdale (10 comments )
Reply Link Flag
Have you seen the speed comparisons and UI for the two? The iPod Touch smokes the Zune HD! It wouldn't have even been close if they would compare a 3GS to the Zune HD. The 3GS's speeds, 24-hour internet and media download/sharing capability, camera, external speaker, etc...would have wasted the poor Zune HD. Like I've said before, Bravo to MS for finally coming out with a device worth talking about, but it's too far behind in market share and it's App store and music/movie selection sucks compared to iTunes! I can't wait to see the next iPhone this spring. I'm sure it will completely flatten the Zune HD and make it completely irrelevant!
Posted by stickyd (19 comments )
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I love seeing all the haters squirm. It's really eating at you isn't it? Oh, the pain! Keep on hating. It makes my day!
Posted by WinNoMo (312 comments )
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all i know is that if i were in the market for a new mp3 player right now i'd go with the zune for its interface, speed is one thing but the zune's interface just makes the touch's look downright boring, especially with that nice OLED screen and the awesome now playing screen, plus i actually like the volume button idea because it makes it so you don't have to go to the now playing screen to pause or skip tracks

i'd still give the prizefight to the iphone for apps and compatibility but personally neither of those concern me
Posted by calculatorwatch (166 comments )
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The truth is that user interface wasn't the thing that beat the Zune HD. The fact that you can do almost everything with the iPod touch, makes it way better still. The line, however, of differences between both it's getting thinner with every update.
Posted by X-sync (203 comments )
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Seriously, who cares, you like Zune, go by it. No one cares.
Posted by i.p.freely--2008 (32 comments )
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I totally agree, lindtdale, they said almost nothing about the uniqueness and beauty of the UI, the history feature, the abundance of material while you listen to music...I've got both plyaers in my hands, also the Zune screen is awesome!
Posted by zuzaliva (1 comment )
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Agreed.
Posted by AaronCT123 (68 comments )
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I know, right? I didn't understand that either. The iPod Touch doesn't have any type of organization, it's just pages and pages of apps. Even the basic functions are apps, which is kind of weird to me. Although it does have a search function -- but you have to go all the way to the left-most page to use it. That feature should have been easier to access.

The Zune HD has better organizations, pin lists, history, and new downloads. It also sorts everything into categories. It just seems like it should have won that round, as well as the Sound and Science round. I do think that the iPod Touch deserved the win, but in some areas I just have to disagree. They were way too harsh in scoring the Zune's strong points.
Posted by TheraCaffe (47 comments )
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I second that ;-)
Posted by Rod Roddy (600 comments )
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Don't forget...they compared a first gen MS Zune to a 3rd Gen iPod.....
Posted by sharmajunior (2503 comments )
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Why is it that people make a big deal out of Zune not compatible with Macs. I have a macbook and macbook air but I still use Zunes. And besides, Macs are just 3-4% market share worldwide. Why give 2 points for that? I don't get it? Zune is compatible to 95-96% of the computers worldwide. Again, I even use Zune of my Macbook. I don't get it. I really dont. I can even sync all the videos and music I got from itunes. I'm really disappointed.
Posted by lindtdale (10 comments )
Reply Link Flag
But then again, doesn't that make the iPod 100% compatible with all computers?!
Posted by bunner05 (12 comments )
Link Flag
(at the risk of creating a flame war).. While the small single digit percentage may be true for all computers world wide.. Apple's numbers are considerably higher when you consider a few important caveats; for new 'premium' computer purchases (over $1000) Apple has a very strong showing - I believe NPD gives the 91% of this market in June, up from 80%.. I don't think it's totally off base to assume a premium laptop buyer might be more inclined to purchase a new 'premium' media player like the zune hd or 3Gen touch.

Also consider that while the global market for Apple isn't especially strong, they enjoy a stronger presence in the US (which is the only region that the Zune HD is currently available)

The bottom line is that Mac compatibility should be considered very important for a device of this kind.
Posted by nothingreal (12 comments )
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You are a LIAR.
Posted by technewsjunkie (1265 comments )
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So then why not just make it compatible with Macs? What point is there in not doing that?
Posted by KhanC (5 comments )
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Macs are more like 30% in US 15% elsewhere (not including drone pcs). The market of choice for apple, + ipods are 90% of players and compatible with PC 100%.
Posted by therealgeeves (441 comments )
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That's nice. Discriminate the minority. You really should cater to all parts of the market. But if you don't have a Mac I guess it doesn't apply to you :I.
Posted by IntelStepSpeed (43 comments )
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You are a bit out of date. Macs are up to about 8 - 9 % market share (US). Plus Mac users tend to purchase more electronics items like MP3 players. So the effective lock-out of customers is higher. Plus there are people who have Macs and PCs. But I guess Microsoft is willing to lose those 10 - 20% potential customers to make a statement.
Posted by lhammer541 (23 comments )
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Do you use another pc to use your zune, or did you find a way to use a zune with a mac?
Posted by Punky187 (2 comments )
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Yep. In the review, 1/3 or even more of them were Mac users, which is a lie in the true world. So, the review is false.
Posted by ace10134 (272 comments )
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plus, out of all mac users, 80% have windows as well, whether its bootcamp or a whole other box.
Posted by ducttape36 (450 comments )
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Like there was any other direction this prizefight could have gone. No appstore? Are you kidding me microsoft? Lame.
Posted by lunaumbrax (21 comments )
Reply Link Flag
there is but cnet made a mistake (or they're bias)
Posted by x303xlinkster (7 comments )
Link Flag
1) There are a few apps available. Not many, but some. If it helps at all (it probably won't), Microsoft has repeatedly said that apps are not what the device is about.

2) The Zune HD has been around for what, two weeks? Less? You expect the same number of apps to be available as on the iTouch, which has been around for years? Jeez.
Posted by revengeofthecow (16 comments )
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I consider it a complete and utter LIE that CNET states they don't have an app store. Open the Zune software, click on Marketplace, then Apps and you can purchase apps for the Zune HD. Granted, it's just getting started, but it's there. Don't believe it- look for yourself. Take this comparison with a HUGE grain of salt especially after they stated their was no comparison in the interface then gave iPod more points for interface, what kind of crap is that?
Posted by Super2online (2666 comments )
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C'mon, did people seriously think that the Zune HD was going to have a robust "App Store" as Apple? Apple itself didn't have a butt-load of Apps either...give it some time, damn. And CNET, I'm surprised you didn't take that into consideration. Sad.
Posted by Rod Roddy (600 comments )
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No Appstore? What the hey, ther IS an Appstore! I saw the guy using it on the video and I can see it on my Zune Software!
Posted by nmmgb (3 comments )
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Why do you need an app store? There's no reason.

I already have my Windows Phone for apps. Plenty of them there.

How about a company actually makes a good Media player first? Oh hey, Microsoft just did.
Posted by ace10134 (272 comments )
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Like there was any other direction this prizefight could have gone. No appstore? Are you kidding me microsoft? Lame.
Posted by lunaumbrax (21 comments )
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There is an app store for Zune. Both available directly on the device and via the Zune software.
Posted by captain_numerica (128 comments )
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My God, who says "lame" anymore?
Posted by NPGMBR (281 comments )
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Dumb idiot they do have an app store its just not built up to 10000 apps like itunes
Posted by CLasher2021 (1 comment )
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bull s*** bias cnet
Posted by hda3ku (4 comments )
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So true. they have always been biased.
Posted by DarkishArchon (21 comments )
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+1
Posted by ace10134 (272 comments )
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I am guessing that the Touch would work on both Windows and Mac, but the Zune HD would work only on Windows as the old Zune did.
Posted by mmorgan01 (23 comments )
Reply Link Flag
Yes, so Zune is compatible with 90% of users in the world.
Posted by ace10134 (272 comments )
Link Flag
This is really useful as I'm in the midst of deciding which direction to go in. I have a Creative Zen Vision M that is just on its last legs, only use a PC, subscribe to Rhapsody to-go and have 40+GBs of music and movies, most of which would need to be converted to fit the i-Touch. I wish someone would just make my mind up for me!
Posted by ginsbera113 (2 comments )
Reply Link Flag
Go for ipod Touch.. this is not just a music player but a game system and it don't just stop there... If you download the free skype application it can also be used a s a phone.... YES that's what i said PHONE... there is also a program called jailbreak that can be installed on touch and this opens so much on your mp3 player...
Posted by edfranco11 (85 comments )
Link Flag
If you want a general internet device, the touch is better. If you want a better music/video/radio player, the Zune is better.

I own both and I left a comment here on page 2 describing why ...if you're interested in my rationale.
Posted by captain_numerica (128 comments )
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if you are mostly concerned with the quality of music and portability, get a sony xseries walkmas. if you are mostly concerned with applications and non-music functions, get a Touch. If you want something in the middle, get the zune.
Posted by roke4181 (6 comments )
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LOL it's hardly useful when Cnet compares an Apple to every other product out there, since we pretty much know their results already.
Posted by pendevous27 (27 comments )
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All Iwant is a media player no apps no games. The Zune HD is great for this purpose. I had a 16g ipod touch traded it for the zune
Posted by gizmo0099 (1 comment )
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Get a Zune.
Posted by DarkishArchon (21 comments )
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well for me I want to get the iPod touch 32GB, my brother has the 8GB 2gen iPod touch and it really is a great do it all media player, and using Hankbrake (it's free to download) it's real easy to convert DVD to mpeg 4 to put videos on the iPod touch. : )
Posted by ZuneTube (4 comments )
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Dude, you are just going to get FanBoi's galore here, sorry.
Just take into account that Apple and Microsoft don't provide only touch based players, if you want to keep your 40GB+ of media you should look into their Hard Drive devices, like the Zune 80GB and 120GB, however apple only has a 160GB Hard Drive device which might be too much for you, but they do have a 64GB touch modle.

I have a Zune, but I don't think of myself as a fanboi.
Posted by nmmgb (3 comments )
Link Flag
Go Zune, get the Zune Pass, and then just re-download all of your music with the unlimited Zune plan!!!

Problem solved. You won't get anything that easy with Apple.
Posted by ace10134 (272 comments )
Link Flag
While the Zune Pass is a great value I was thinking about it the other day and I've never spent more than $10 in the iTunes Store. So unless you're planning on spending a bunch of money every month on music, then it's really an irrelevant.
Posted by myles taylor (4617 comments )
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This is really useful as I'm in the midst of deciding which direction to go in. I have a Creative Zen Vision M that is just on its last legs, only use a PC, subscribe to Rhapsody to-go and have 40+GBs of music and movies, most of which would need to be converted to fit the i-Touch. I wish someone would just make my mind up for me!
Posted by ginsbera113 (2 comments )
Reply Link Flag
very good
Posted by Carol Reddington (1 comment )
Reply Link Flag
"There's no shuffle all playback option "
- Press the big PLAY icon on the top level menu to the left of music

"Top notch sexy. It's the slimmest, sleekest gadget right now."
- What are you looking at, dude? Still scratches and the some old display technology. oh, and the HD is slimmer.

"It can't play WMA or WMV, but personally I don't care."
"The Zune Marketplace is PC only, so they won't be winning over curious Mac users. "
- I dont care if the Zune software doesnt work in that 4% of worlwide macs since it works fine in my Compaq Athlon based work rig and in my self build Pentium Core 2 Duo clone at home. and in fact, those macolytes have a myriad of options even sanctioned by their God (bootcamp). There is Sun VirtualBox, VMWare, etc, etc.

" being able to dock it with your TV is nice, even if it's a $99 "
- The Sync Dock is $50 at Amazon. or you are gonna tell us that you have money for getting an overpriced Mac but no a cheap $8 HDMI cable?

"Plus, there's a 64GB option, which is great."
- 16GB Zune HD $219 is a greater value than the old iPod Touch 8GB for $199.

"the Zune HD won't retain its value as well as the Touch."
How so? The old 8GB iPod Touch is not fully compatible with the latest features available (no voice control) for the real 3G iPod Touch and future games and apps will not work fully with the 8GB iPod Touch since it is using old hardware.

"However, it adds $180 per year to the total cost."
Hey, Brian. How much money do you pay for 120 itunes songs when most songs are $0.99 - $1.29? Remember that Zune Pass give you 10 monthly credits for buying MP3/WMA songs up to 320 kbps.

Not a single mention of HD radio or did I miss something? Will you all make a big fuzz when the iPod Touch get radio next year ? Let us know when you will start praising Live Pause. Whatever.
Posted by RicardoDawkins (39 comments )
Reply Link Flag
u forgot that the zune does have an app store but thanks for stickin up to the zune
Posted by x303xlinkster (7 comments )
Link Flag
HD radio! HA! Yeah, that's a needed feature. With all of the streaming music players and almost every major radio station around available through an app, why would you need HD radio. There's not a large enough difference in sound quality to make a difference!

Don't get mad b/c the Zune HD tried to copy ever single feature, design and UI of the iPhone and still doesn't beat it! The Zune's HD is a nice PMP, but that's it! Have fun carrying it and your cell phone with you around at all time. Oh, and I'm replying to this in my car over 3G.....do that on your Zune HD! HA!
Posted by stickyd (19 comments )
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@ stickyd

I'll reply over 3G on my Zune HD when you do so on your iPod Touch.

Last I checked, 3G wireless internet is for the iPhone.
Posted by ManjyomeThunder (38 comments )
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iTunes has over 85,000 apps and over 2 billion already downloaded! There is no way MS can catch up to this. There are already so many great games already available that won't be available for quite some time in the Zune marketplace.....if at all! The iPhone and iPod Touch have already proven they are great devices with excellent UI, compatability and content. MS has an uphill battle with the Zune HD. By the time and if it does make up any ground, Apple will be releasing an even better product that will blow the Zune away. Hell MS had two years to copy the iPod Touch and make the Zune HD better in every aspect, but still failed to do so. That's why MS sucks!
Posted by stickyd (19 comments )
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I totally agree with every point you made man.

**on a side note: Any PRIZEFIGHT that has an Apple Product in it is always going to be scored higher than the opponent Regardless if its good or it Overall Sucks, because Brian Tong is an Apple Boy.
Posted by Corey8888 (2 comments )
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"oh, and the HD is slimmer"

Zune HD 32 GB: 8.9MM, iPod Touch 32GB: 8.5MM

other than that you're right.. the scratches make the ipod look terrible after about a week in your pocket.
Posted by nothingreal (12 comments )
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Someone has their panties in a bunch...
While the ZuneHD is a great competitor, it is still just an imitator. iPod Touch deserves the win.
Posted by o2bpitching (115 comments )
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They mentioned HD radio, and the little ol' Nano has FM radio. It's also the biggest seller (that means marketshare which you guys are obsessed with)
Posted by technewsjunkie (1265 comments )
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Great points all, but it's not useful to get so worked up over what you knew would be a biased comparison. As soon as I saw the dude claim that "everyone he knows wants to know why the Zune doesn't work with a mac" you knew this was a joke. I plan on getting a Zune but I must admit that a decent app store to compare with Itunes would be a nice feature. I think that if Zune wants to move forward they must do something to address that huge advantage that Apple has in this area.
Posted by wrightdawg (5 comments )
Link Flag
super comment man!!! somebody had to set the record straight and you did!!!all your points hit the bullseye..
even im tired of people lamenting on some points missed by Microsoft or sony..but if APPLE misses something..it isnt even talked about..and im sure they will praise LIVE pause in the NANO..another thing..who wants a crappy video camera in IPOD nano?? but there u go every1 is praising how u have so many features and ways to shoot..i say ***?? dont u own a cell phone to take videos???ITOUCH is sexier than ZUNE??? these CNET people need to learn!!

im tired of "appl-nism"!!!! and btw..nobody cares if they have a million apps on farts and what not..on the whole you had some great points!!!
Posted by dablackreaper (4 comments )
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Now it's an even easier decision. Through Wal-Mart (online or in stores), the 32GB Touch (3G) is available for $279.99. The main drawing power of the Zune is that it's almost as good as the Touch, and cheaper. Now it's not cheaper anymore. For incumbent iPod owners, it's not even a question. You can't carry your protected iTunes purchases over to the Zune without substantial legword (burning and ripping cds for every album you have purchased), the content available through iTunes is an order of magnitude greater than through the Zune Marketplace, and iTunes has the App Store. When the pricing is equivalent, the fact that the Touch looks the same as previous generations is irrelevant. Would I like an updated look? Sure, but not if it is going to affect the price. I'm after functionality. I've been an iPod owner for nearly 5 years, and have never complained about my devices once. Sure, I'd like a camera on my new 32GB Touch, but the Zune doesn't have one either. The Zune is a great device ... and if Apple hadn't created the Touch it would be a huge factor in this market ... but Apple did create the Touch, and it is just simply a better product.
Posted by gavainm (7 comments )
Reply Link Flag
Plus, the subscription service doesn't hold so much appeal to me once you look at the math. For purchases, getting 10 songs a month for $15 works out to $1.50 a song ... while songs on iTunes are $0.99 a piece. You could spend $15 a month on iTunes and get 15 songs. Sure you can't "rent" music on iTunes, but there is a ton of free content, both in music and video. The math just doesn't create a tipping point in the Zune's favor for me.
Posted by gavainm (7 comments )
Link Flag
You probably should go through that "substantial legword" even if you stay with Apple products. You never know when anyone is going to kill its DRM, so you should do it now and not wait until it's down to the wire.
Posted by aka_tripleB (2211 comments )
Link Flag
"...but Apple did create the iTouch, and it is simply a better product."
It's comments like this that just kill me... The iPod Touch is a great product, but not if music and music discovery are your top needs. I have both and my Zune HD absolutely trumps my iPhone (same difference) when it comes to the music side of things. Reading the artist bios is interesting and the general look is a lot more advanced. The smaller size and lighter feel make it easier to pocket. I get compliments about the screen left and right. I appreciated your comment, but there are a lot of people who simply want a great music and video experience out of their devices. Will you get this with the iTouch? Of course, but just not quite as well as the Zune HD, which has formed its own niche area in the music industry. Casual games would be nice admittedly, but I regress, iFart is never touching either device with a 10 foot pole.

Oh, and I think the comment made about the look of the Zune was in irony; Apple always touts itself as being the hip, young, cool company in its (ongoing) ads. Seeing these two devices minus the logo would have you wondering which one was made by which company, which is a major Microsoft accomplishment.


Last thing: CNET Editors!
Did you notice that the text and micro- album covers aren't static? If you tilt the Zune HD, the words and the pictures shift a little. Also, when picking through songs in an album, the same thing happens to the portion of the art showing at the top of the screen. I thought my eyes were playing tricks, but it's true!
Posted by JWolford (12 comments )
Link Flag
I disagree with the touch being a "simply better product." Touch is only better because its a simple product. Its getting way too much credit for something that basically every other players can do. Touch screen players were out in Asia for at least 2 years fully well before apples. USA is just incredibly slow with the technology compared to the rest of the world, meaning asia and europe. Touch is just something that appeals to the american value. Not to say that its a bad thing but...seeing as how americans are "generally" lazy and more for less...the touch fits into it well both economically and commercially. The zune for its price is way too low. The audio quality is fantastic, even the most simple ones...assuming that you listen to an actual decent kbps for your audio files. Don't crit me on my spelling or my grammer...thats really childish...but I had to reply to this comment because....its just soooo apple fanboyismmm!!! not to say that im a zune fan but really....not giving zune a chance...plus its my opinion like your and im not attacking you...just felt the need to reply
Posted by yeargh (6 comments )
Link Flag
No, the Zune is a better product.

If you want a PREMIUM music experience, you get a Zune.

If you want GIMICKS like "Where did I park my car"? you get an iPod.
Posted by ace10134 (272 comments )
Link Flag
I have both and u can put songs from i-Tunes on your Zune, it's easy. If there's a problem it's i-Tunes is a buggy program that wants u to be stuck using their interface only. I use a few MP3 players and at least Zune and the Sony keep your files in order and they both let u use each others interface without duplicating songs in your Windows Media Players library.
Posted by xpank6 (5 comments )
Link Flag
Welcome to CNET's first prizefight in our newly designed template, which integrates our video prizefight with the text from CNET's editors. Please let us know what you think.
Posted by lindsey.turrentine (56 comments )
Reply Link Flag
It's hard to read.
Posted by Dust_Puppy (50 comments )
Link Flag
LAME, big time. You made the replies impossible to find so it appears that when a viewer replies to a comment it's not posting. Get it right, or don't do it!
Posted by Super2online (2666 comments )
Link Flag
this template and format is far superior to prior prize fights. Thank You.
Posted by TechDawn (20 comments )
Link Flag
It's good that comments are finally allowed. It's somewhat strange that certain types of pages on CNET don't allow comments, like those comparison table things, (until now) prizefights, and reviews (yeah, you can add your own review, but sometimes you just want to comment on what the CNET reviewer said).
Posted by Brent212 (925 comments )
Link Flag
It was a good review, though you ought to use two jury members who do not own either and haven't had renewed Touches for the past 3 years who were quite biased in their reviews. If you're going to factor in the cool factor from historical use for each category, just make it a separate category call it "warm and fuzzies" or something and try to get genuine fact based reviews on the other categories. I see a definate trend from CNET reviewers as of late regularly slamming MS based products and doting Apple products for no reason other than sentiment. Otherwise, it was an entertaining review that was more or less fair between the two products regardless of the jury. Good job overall for sure.
Posted by solicitehere (118 comments )
Link Flag
i love it, I actually wrote CNET about doing just this like a month ago and figured, eh, maybe they'll do it one day, so thank you all for doing this. I love CNETTV but I cant watch it at work and would like to read what I can't watch at work! : )
Posted by bluelight421 (36 comments )
Link Flag
No offense, but I hate your video offerings. As in, I hit backspace now the minute I see a video window open on your site. Please STOP making everything into a video. And please WARN PEOPLE when they are clicking on a video.
Posted by big.mouth (140 comments )
Link Flag
Well at least we can voice our thoughts on that, THANK you for adding comments to them! I praise you for that. Good work.
Posted by ace10134 (272 comments )
Link Flag
umm brian the zune hd will have an app store... check engadget fanboy
Posted by x303xlinkster (7 comments )
Reply Link Flag
key words "WILL HAVE"
Posted by z0mb1e420 (2 comments )
Link Flag
Well when it gets one that can compete with the Apple App Store, they can do another prizefight and see who wins. You can't give it points for a feature that someday it might have.
Posted by o2bpitching (115 comments )
Link Flag
The Zune appstore will be crappy compared to the hundreds of thousands to apps on the appstore tough..
Posted by David_G. (50 comments )
Link Flag
Also, there's many other app stores...

http://www.zunester.goods.officelive.com/default.aspx
Posted by ace10134 (272 comments )
Link Flag
This result is obvious, CNET could never allow anything to win over the Touch, even if it was a better product.
Posted by 00Spyder (12 comments )
Reply Link Flag
Yep.
Posted by ace10134 (272 comments )
Link Flag
Welcome to CNET's first prizefight in our redesigned template, which integrates our video prizefight with the text from CNET's editors. Please let us know what you think.
Posted by lindsey.turrentine (56 comments )
Reply Link Flag
You double posted :P
Posted by ace10134 (272 comments )
Link Flag
i wonder if a full app store for the Zune would have made a difference.
Posted by cmbPDX (5 comments )
Reply Link Flag
Is that Stargate Universe I see playing on the iTouch..?!
Posted by svgabe (4 comments )
Reply Link Flag
Zune HD is way better than iPot Touch. Even Zune software is way better than that bloated iTones. It's so funny that apple taxed iPot wins...Apple bribe
Posted by shellcodes_coder (2085 comments )
Reply Link Flag
So remind me, how are those third party apps working out for you?
Ohhhhh, righttttt. You don't have them. I think its obvious who wins.
Posted by o2bpitching (115 comments )
Link Flag
Nice rejoinder, very helpful.
Posted by KhanC (5 comments )
Link Flag
If only I had windoze, then I'd have mac envy...
Posted by therealgeeves (441 comments )
Link Flag
On a Zune you listen to music...

On an ipod touch, you can do anything, that's why.
Posted by David_G. (50 comments )
Link Flag
CNET has lots of Apple ads on their website too, I believe....CONSPIRACIES!!
Posted by ace10134 (272 comments )
Link Flag
I thought the Zune HD had a EQ and App selection on the menu with XNA support?
Posted by pooyan69 (155 comments )
Reply Link Flag
Actually, the Zune HD and the iPod Touch have software EQs built in. Simply go to the Settings | Music on either device. Also, the Zune HD does support Apps, it's just that there are only a couple Apps available in the Marketplace for now. You can build your own apps with XNA. It seems perfectly logical for them to open up the Marketplace like they did for XBox 360.
Posted by wjsteele (200 comments )
Link Flag
the Zune hd DOES have an EQ and App selector.
Posted by DarkishArchon (21 comments )
Link Flag
It does have an EQ.

It does have an App Store.
Posted by ace10134 (272 comments )
Link Flag
both the zune hd and ipod touch have eq and zune is getting apps, but cnet is too dumb to realize it
Posted by Gallardo147 (14 comments )
Link Flag
Sometimes I wonder if Cnet is paid by Microsoft. Its difficult to take some of your comments seriously when some of the most obvious things are overlooked. WMA is not available on iTunes/Mac because Microsoft doesn't support the platform, not because Apple chose not to include it. And while I'm sure the Zune is
Posted by teonyc_dotmac (2 comments )
Reply Link Flag
Cnet is definately a media darling swaying company. They've been up Apple's Stem for well over 3 years now with definately fanboys doing some biased reviews in Apple's favor. The not compatible with Mac's comment was rediculous from the reviewer. Zune has the potential to reach soooooooo many more people even if it wasn't compatible with an Apple. People have apples who use zunes all the time so I don't understand why they said that. Plus, I'm sure there's an app for that.
Posted by solicitehere (118 comments )
Link Flag
You're 100% dead wrong on that my friend. MS openly licenses WMA to anybody who cares to implement it -- for a nominal fee. Apple has the market by the horns. It's in their interest to not support WMA. After all, why make it easy for people to switch back/and forth between devices -- they want people to remain within their ecosystem.

On the same lines -- Microsoft would implement AAC (protected / FairPlay support) if they could license it from Apple. So would Palm (refer to the ongoing Palm vs. Apple battles over iTunes). Apple doesn't license this stuff. They *want* to be incompatible. It's in Palms interests to be compatible. It's in Microsoft's interests to be compatible. It's in the consumers interests for things to be compatible. In this instance however, it's not in Apple's interests -- so they are not playing nice.
Posted by dhavleak (1030 comments )
Link Flag
Did you read the whole thing or just the Ipod Touch comments? Anyone reading this would say it was as if they are being paid by Apple.
Posted by LordBishop34 (20 comments )
Link Flag
WMA is a licensable product from Microsoft, it is Apple who chose not to include it. Check out http://www.microsoft.com/windows/windowsmedia/player/wmcomponents.mspx for a free plugin to quicktime to play WMA files, but for what ever reason Apple still won't allow them to play in iTunes.
Posted by DrtyDogg (3084 comments )
Link Flag
The fact that the Zune is something new should've counted for more.
Posted by jmsheats (8 comments )
Reply Link Flag
This was absolutely ridiculous. CNET, and you, Mr. Tong specifically, are biased as all hell. <br /><br />Protip - Just because you're a Mac fanboy, doesn't mean everybody else is. 90% of computer users use Windows. It's plenty compatible enough. Apple HAS to make iTunes for Windows to keep market share.<br /><br />These are portable MUSIC players, not mobile computers. Want a mobile computer? Get a netbook.<br /><br />The Touch should have gotten a THREE for "sexiness" and "interface". [CNET editors' note: Personal attack deleted.]
Posted by ManjyomeThunder (38 comments )
Reply Link Flag
Seconded.
Posted by DarkishArchon (21 comments )
Link Flag
LMAO!!! hilarious comment!!!
Posted by dablackreaper (4 comments )
Link Flag
They're censoring your thoughts!

But yep, this video reaks of Bias. It should be removed soon...that would be the morally correct thing to do. Also, it's a lie that there's no app store.
Posted by ace10134 (272 comments )
Link Flag
Censorship, Tong? My, my, aren't you a big man. If you're going to be Apple's *****, then you should go out in public as Apple's *****.
Posted by ManjyomeThunder (38 comments )
Link Flag
I have to agree.

In any case, I was interested in this review particularly for the HD Radio part. To my knowledge this was **the only MP3 player that also is an HD Radio.** There is only one other portable/handheld/battery operated HD radio device: an Insignia HD radio available from Best Buy that came out about the same time and does not compare to having an MP3 player and HD radio together.

CNET: how come this does not seem to matter?? Talk about media and content??
Posted by projengineer (2 comments )
Link Flag
I happen to own an iPod touch and a Zune HD (as of a few days ago). I'd have to agree with this review: both devices are great. But when it comes to a general internet device, the iPod touch edges in front.

That said, the Zune HD kicks the crap out of any non-touch iPod model. It's a better music and video player, IMHO. And the ZunePass is a great value and the real reason why I'm loving my Zune. (I love my iPod touch too--but more so for a general web browser, etc. It's too heavy for a music device while jogging, etc..)

Again, I want to stress *both* devices are great. Just adding my 2 cents...
Posted by captain_numerica (128 comments )
Reply Link Flag
how can the marketplace be a factor in this prizefight or any prizefight....it should only based on the software and hardware....they did the same thing with xbox360 n ps3...the marketplace has nothing to do with the performance of the device!
Posted by iphoneisthegreatest (1 comment )
Reply Link Flag
i see what your saying but in all honesty the marketplace has a lot to do with the value your getting out of the device. I personally plan to get a Zune HD in November to replace my first generation iPod Touch, because I'm looking for more of an all around media device rather than a pocket computer. I love everything that the iPod Touch can do, and its a great device, but I think the Zune HD should be a fresh and interesting addition to the touchscreen PMP market.
Posted by Snickz232 (4 comments )
Link Flag
i see what your saying but in all honesty the marketplace has a lot to do with the value your getting out of the device. I personally plan to get a Zune HD in November to replace my first generation iPod Touch, because I'm looking for more of an all around media device rather than a pocket computer. I love everything that the iPod Touch can do, and its a great device, but I think the Zune HD should be a fresh and interesting addition to the touchscreen PMP market.
Posted by Snickz232 (4 comments )
Link Flag
Nice try, but the marketplace has everything to do with the experience of owning and using the device. How else are you going to add content?
Posted by Ray180 (191 comments )
Link Flag
@ Ray180

There's this thing you may not have heard of, called a CD...
Then of course, there's the fact that iTunes is DRM free and you can use its music on the Zune HD, as well as music from Amazon.
Posted by ManjyomeThunder (38 comments )
Link Flag
@ManjyomeThunder - Zune Marketplace is just as DRM free as iTunes is if you want to buy music. You also get 10 DRM free tracks a month if you're a Zune subscriber on top of the plethora of subscription music you get monthly. You also said CDs would be much better. Um, couldn't disagree more for finding music but if you believe that then CDs are also better than iTunes. So, tell me again how iTunes does music better?
Posted by ecolinv (10 comments )
Link Flag
@ ecolinv

I never said it did. Lol.
Posted by ManjyomeThunder (38 comments )
Link Flag
@major

"There's this thing you may not have heard of, called a CD..."

Is that a joke? He was talking about MORE than music. Like videogames, applications, videos, etc. This is way the zune was no competition.
Posted by David_G. (50 comments )
Link Flag
Hmmm....

interesting comment from Ray180....

For years we heard that BI Macs (Before Intel) were cool hardware and software and it was the experience and usability --- but that the massive amount of Windows applications had absolutely no value and that therefore PCs "sucked compared to Macs". How things change when it helps an Apple product....
Posted by projengineer (2 comments )
Link Flag
Did you read my other posts? Earlier I said the iPod Touch internet and browser speeds smoke the Zune HD.........and that if you compared the iPhone 3GS to the Zune HD, it wouldn't even be close. My point is, Apple has given it's users options of a phone incorporated into the device. And that device is by far superior to the Zune HD. Get 3G incorporated with the Zune HD and then we'll talk. In the meantime good luck still trying to compete with the iPhone 3GS's little brother!

Also, what kind of crap virtual keyboard is that on the HD? And don't get me started on the WebOS that doesn't even render the exact webpages you go to. It displays a watered down version of the page you're going to and it's still slower than the iPod Touch and iPhone! Happy time with your Zune HD's!
Posted by stickyd (19 comments )
Reply Link Flag
Thanks, I do love my Zune HD. The keyboard is actually quite nice, btw.

If you could get your head out of your rear, you might see that both devices are GREAT. Let's not turn this into a "red versus blue" winner take all. This isn't a political election. These are just two music devices that are both pretty badass in their own right.

And yes, I love my touch too. It is possible to not be a shill (for either company) and admit that both devices are good.
Posted by captain_numerica (128 comments )
Link Flag
What's that? I can't hear you, you'-fjhdasgbfasdg-re bre-ajsdb-ing up, must be AT&#38;T.

Last time I checked, this isn't a competitor to the iPhone, seeing as well, it's not a phone.

I should wish my little sister good luck competing with my school's graduating class for valedictorian. She's 10 years old. :D
Posted by ManjyomeThunder (38 comments )
Link Flag
Go somewhere and post your fanboy crap to those who cares
Posted by pendevous27 (27 comments )
Link Flag
 

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About Prizefight

A collection of judges from CNET.com put the third-generation Apple iPod Touch and the Microsoft Zune HD through their paces, pitting the players head-to-head in five bone-shaking rounds. See who comes out on top in this subjective battle.

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About the Judges

Donald Bell Donald Bell: is a CNET Senior Editor, a Zune user, and the guy who gave the iPod Touch an Editors' Choice award--which makes him an ideal punching bag for opinionated CNET readers.
Jasmine France Jasmine France: is a Senior Associate Editor for digital audio at CNET. Of the seemingly endless array of products that pass through her hands, only the strong survive.
Brian Tong Brian Tong: is editor and host of Prizefight and the Apple Byte on CNET TV. He's ready to face off two devices, anywhere at anytime. It's only a good fight if someone bleeds.