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December 5, 2008 11:45 AM PST

I want to believe: Reflections on my Zune year

by Donald Bell

Photo of the worn back of a Zune 80 MP3 player.

After a year of daily abuse without a case, the etching on the back of my Zune 80 is showing its age. The glass screen on the front is still pristine, though, which is more than I can say for my old iPod.

(Credit: Donald Bell/CNET Networks)

My Zune 80 hasn't left my side since December of 2007, after it successfully lured me from my trusty fifth-generation iPod. I invested in the Zune because I wanted to know how the other half lived (or more accurately, the other 4 percent), but the Zune's larger screen, bold user interface, podcast integration, and Zune Pass subscription service didn't hurt, either.

A few weeks passed and I was hooked on the Zune and the all-you-can-eat Zune Pass music subscription. I bought a 4GB Zune for my wife, invested in a Zune Home A/V dock to connect to my home stereo system, and even set up my PC to sync with my Zune wirelessly. Like any new romance, there were some initial hiccups--in this case, buggy software; mismatched album art; music that wouldn't delete; and broken subscription tracks. Eventually, though, I worked out the kinks, and the latest software and firmware upgrades have made life with the Zune experience much better.

There's just one thing: I'm lonely. Hundreds of iPod owners join me on the subway every day--even a few folks playing music on their Blackberries--but I seldom see a Zune. It's my job to help people decide what kind of MP3 player they should buy, but I still wonder if I made the wrong decision buying a Zune. Why can't this MP3 player get any traction?

There's no magic bullet that will make the Zune an instant success. I think Microsoft has the right idea by courting young, dedicated music fans and slowly building cult status. I just don't think they're moving fast enough to keep up with this audience or keep ahead of Apple.

Out of pure self-interest as a Zune user, I present four ideas that I think would make the Zune a better product. Feel free to add your own at the end.

Photo of Slacker G2, Zune 120, and iPod Touch MP3 players.

With a little creativity, Zune (center) can repackage the Channels feature as free, place-shifted Internet radio, just like the Slacker G2 (left). A free Channels option will give users a real taste of the Zune Pass experience, helping Microsoft better market its subscription service and sell more music. By comparison, the iPod Touch (right) offers users free music-streaming Apps, such as Pandora, but you can only listen when you're around a Wi-Fi connection.

(Credit: Donald Bell/CNET Networks)

1. Make Zune Channels free

The Zune's latest Channels feature offers playlists of new music that refresh on your device every week. Channels is a killer feature no iPod has; unfortunately, most Zune users don't have Channels either, since you need Microsoft's $15/mo Zune Pass service to get it. I'm a big fan of the Zune Pass, but not everybody can justify $180 a year for a music service (especially with file-sharing still alive and well). For these users, the Channels option on the Zune's main menu is just a daily reminder that they're only getting part of the Zune experience. I understand that Microsoft ideally wants all Zune users signed up for a Zune Pass, but it needs to be rewarding its nascent user base with as many features as possible right out of the box.

Fortunately, there's already a blueprint out there for free, side-loaded music channels: the Slacker G2. Marketed as a portable Internet radio, the Slacker G2 works just like Zune's Channels, downloading user-selected channels of DRM-protected WMA music files directly to the device over Wi-Fi. The Slacker, however, delivers its channels free right out of the box (ad-supported with the option to upgrade to ad-free), while Zune requires a $15 monthly fee.

A free version of Zune Channels would require some restrictions (just like the Slacker service): the playlist order would be shuffled; you couldn't skip tracks more than a specified number of times, and you may have to live with a few short audio ads every 5-10 songs. (Hint, Microsoft: Use this ad platform for promoting the Zune Pass or XBox 360 game titles). You also wouldn't be able to keep the songs unless you exercise your option to purchase the track or you let Microsoft upsell you on the Zune Pass subscription.

The bottom line is that the Zune's Channel feature needs to work right out of the box for all users. If Microsoft plays its cards right, the free version of Channels would generate more sales, more music discovery, and more incentive for users to buy a Zune Pass subscription. Sure, out-of-box Channels would add to Microsoft's licensing complexity, but no one said competing against the iPod would be easy.

Screen shot of emusic listing page.

Online music retailer eMusic does a masterful job of bringing outside-Web resources into its pages (YouTube, Wikipedia, Flickr) and allowing users to post eMusic content to other sites. When Microsoft finally decides to open up its Zune Social site, it would do well to mimic eMusic's philosophy.

(Credit: eMusic)

2. Open the Social

In the spirit of fostering community among Zune users and facilitating song recommendations between friends, Microsoft has its own music-focused online social network called the Zune Social. It's a fun, free service that showcases what you've been listening to on your Zune and lets you keep tabs on the listening habits of other participating Zune users.

Personally, I think the Zune Social is pretty cool, but I seldom use it because it's so damn limiting. If I buy an MP3 player from Apple, Sony, Samsung, Creative, SanDisk, or any other manufacturer aside from Microsoft, I can upload my listening data to several online social music services that best Zune Social at sharing music with non-Zune friends (iLike, MOG, Lala, and Last.fm--which is owned by CNET parent company, CBS--to name a few). There's no way for me to feed my Zune data from the Social into my other music profiles around the Web, or vice-versa.

I want to see my Zune listening habits displayed loud and proud on my personal blog (more than a cute Zune card, please), and I also want to see my personal blog feed into my Zune Social page. As it stands now, I have a handful of online music profiles (Last.fm, iMeem, MOG) tied to my stagnant iTunes and iPod listening habits, while the Zune Social--a Web site that absolutely none of my friends frequent--hogs my current listening status. As far as my friends know, my taste in music froze in December 2007 on the day I started using a Zune.

Neither Microsoft nor Apple can corral users without imprisoning them. The best these companies can do is maintain a presence everywhere their audience might be--a tactic employed by Rhapsody, eMusic, Lala, and iMeem, and to some extent, Apple, since band Web sites commonly include iTunes download links. Microsoft should go ahead and open up.

Image of Zune wireless screen.

After three years of development, there's still nothing about the Zune's Wi-Fi capabilities that I actually use.

(Credit: Donald Bell/CNET Networks)

3. Lose the Wi-Fi

If the Zune lost Wi-Fi, would anyone really care? It's comforting to believe in the myth of the coffee shop techie/slacker/hipster/blogger who has an afternoon to kill wirelessly browsing albums from the Zune Marketplace, but few of us have the time or inclination to use the Zune's wireless features in their current form.

Besides, Zune's Wi-Fi capabilities hurt the player more than they help. Wi-Fi is a total battery zapper, and in an effort to conserve as much battery life as possible, Microsoft threw out features such as EQ control. The power demands of Wi-Fi also prevent Microsoft from exploring other interesting features, such as Bluetooth or integrated noise-cancellation.

During my year of Zune 80 ownership, I've cursed the Zune's dismal battery life much more than I've praised its Wi-Fi capabilities. And although I think the Zune 80 sounds great, I've also heard how amazing music can sound on something like the Sony S-Series Walkman, which has jaw-dropping sound-enhancement controls. I had some initial enthusiasm for the Zune's wireless sync feature, but I eventually reverted back to USB for the sake of increased transfer speeds.

As far as browsing, purchasing, and downloading new music, I'm seldom so desperate for new music that I can't wait until I'm back at my computer. To be fair, the iPod Touch and the iPhone suffer from the same problem, but in their case, third-party apps such as Pandora and Last.fm let you explore and bookmark new songs regardless of how you choose to download them.

It doesn't have to be all or nothing. For users who really want Wi-Fi, Microsoft could always sell a Wi-Fi hardware accessory that plugs into the Zune's proprietary dock connection. An accessory solution wouldn't be as elegant as built-in Wi-Fi, but the trade-off in sound quality and battery life might inspire more converts and the Zune could finally get rid of that goofy plastic window.

Image of Netflix on Boxee.

No one's done it yet, but if you could find a way to load DRM-protected Hulu and Netflix videos onto the Zune, you could really give Apple a run for its money.

(Credit: Boxee)

4. Bring on subscription video

The big, gorgeous, glass-covered screens on the Zune 80 and Zune 120 blow away the iPod Classic's puny screen. Unfortunately, the Zune Marketplace video content pales in comparison to offerings at iTunes, which gives iPod owners thousands of blockbuster movies to choose from and the option to rent titles for just a few bucks.

Microsoft has done an admirable job adding popular television content to the Zune Marketplace, but it's still far behind iTunes. At this point, it's not enough to catch-up; Microsoft really needs to leapfrog the iTunes video store if they want to turn heads.

By including support for the DRM-protected WMV video format used by Amazon Video On Demand, Vongo (RIP), and Cinema Now, the Zune is in a excellent position to offer movie and television studios a dependable copy-protected distribution format. If the Zune is going to put the squeeze on Apple, however, it needs more than a secure video format--it needs some partners.

Hulu on a Zune would be a game-changer. Netflix rentals on a Zune would be a game-changer (the Microsoft XBox 360 already has it, in fact). I realize these services only offer video-streaming currently, but if someone as influential as Microsoft stepped in and made the case for secure, ad-supported, DRM-wrapped video downloads, I bet someone would listen. Microsoft needs to stop poorly imitating Apple when it comes to video sales and do something unique that users really want.

Final thoughts

I love my Zune. I want the Zune to succeed. More importantly, I want Apple's iTunes and iPod dynasty to have some real competition so that we, as music consumers, get better products and services.

The trouble is that if the Microsoft wants a leg-up on Apple, it needs to act fast. If Redmond waits until next December, the iPod Touch will have benefited from another year of intense App development and another bump in storage capacity.

Whether you carry an iPod or a Zune, let me hear what you think about the Zune's prospects and what the next step should be.

Donald Bell is CNET Reviews' senior editor for MP3 players and portable audio, and one half of the MP3 Insider blog and weekly podcast. He also likes getting his hands dirty with digital audio tools for musicians and DJs.
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Add a Comment (Log in or register) Showing 1 of 6 pages (164 Comments)
by davidmcelroy_dotmac December 5, 2008 12:07 PM PST
I really think anybody who's still concerned about Zune is fighting the last war. It's over. The iPod won. When a brand has this level of mindshare, it ceases to matter how good it is. Geeks might argue about features, but the iPod BRAND is so far in the lead that Zune is doomed to be a loser, now and always. By this point, it's about the brand, NOT about the list of features. Microsoft just needs to admit defeat and "knife the baby," to use a colorful term from a previous 'Softie in another context.
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by castelazo December 7, 2008 11:34 AM PST
If we think like this, there wouldn't be any changes at all in the world.

Fight paradigms. Open your mind to new options or let others "think different".
by DrewN December 8, 2008 4:26 AM PST
The comments were well thought out and expressed...until the inevitable iPod fanboy showed up :roll:
by pdskep December 8, 2008 5:23 AM PST
OK, then so should Apple Macs.
by lindtdale December 8, 2008 5:23 AM PST
Oh come on! I'm a mac user and I have a zune. I use bootcamp just for my Zune! for Real! I love Zune because its unique. If we go with your thinking then Apple should give up with desktop/laptop OS fight. Microsoft have 90% of the market share for crying out loud. Ipod's market share is down to 70 and its decreasing. I support OSX because I want some challenge with Windows. Same with Zune. I want competition with ipods. I use Apple product because they are elegant and shiny and useful(to my level) Zune for me gives me everything that I need for an mp3 player. The device is really nice. You should try it! And before you criticize a product, make sure you have used it! Thanks!
by medezark December 8, 2008 5:54 AM PST
I love my Archos 605 Wifi, It's a DVR, music player, web browser, has 120 GB of space, a spacious hi res touch screen display, decent battery life , I can add a helmet cam for around $100. I don't like having to pay so much for the device and then again for different codecs, but I can manage the files on it easily (drag and drop, treat it like an external USB Drive).
by cyclonica1980 December 8, 2008 7:47 AM PST
So by Davidmcelroy's thinking I say Mac loses than. Being PC controls 97% of the market. This kind of thinking David is what lowers competition, and with no competition prices do not get dropped they go up! If everyone had your style of thining there would be no Mac, no Linux, and Microsoft would charge you 500.00 per copy of windows.
by b_baggins December 8, 2008 8:40 AM PST
No, Apple shouldn't axe the Mac because it has low marketshare. That's just your lack of reading comprehension on display. Apple's Mac brand has good mindshare, too, as evidenced by the record sales Apple is enjoying each quarter.

Now, if the Zune were showing double digit growth in the MP3 player market, I would say keep after it, MS. But the Zune is at 4% and staying there. In the last three years, Apple has gone from 3% to almost 10% of the PC market, and the number one seller of notebooks in the United States.

It's not just how big you are, it's how big you are growing.
by kmadsen07 December 8, 2008 8:42 AM PST
Well... I bought 20 Zunes for my holiday gift giving. Everyone who received one, was ecstatic!

All could not believe how great it worked. I agree the Brand is not there yet... but the WOW factor is. This is a key element to building a brand. So put your knife away for now and use a paint brush with green for GO.
by sag969 December 8, 2008 9:18 AM PST
This sounds familiar...oh yeah, weren't Sony fanboys saying this about the original xbox? 4 years ago, if you asked any Sony consumer/employee that in the next gen console race - Nintendo would be ahead, Microsoft would be in second, and Sony in last (in terms of consoles sold) - nobody would believe you. So, why is so hard to say that 4 years from now, the iPod won't be the most dominant mp3 player on the market? There are several companies, inlcuding Microsoft, chipping away at its shares. Like Donald Bell said, it might just be one thing - like streaming netflix - that would launch the Zune to the forefront.

Just remember, this isn't the first time that Microsoft has entered a market it had never touched before, and before long ended up being a success.
by alex-cnet December 8, 2008 9:22 AM PST
Although Apple currently has a HUGE user base and technology is moving AWAY from things like PMPs towards things like the iPhone, I think Apple is taking things in a completely different direction in which Microsoft is taking the Zune.

Like others say, the iPhone is for wasting time. It is a great device for things like media, browsing, etc. on the go. But where does that leave music lovers? The Zune is currently being marketed as the music lovers device, with a wide range of music discovery methods, "social" abilities and the Zune Pass. So with Apple pushing the iPhone, the only people with media players will be the ones who truly love their music (and have a lot of it) and thats exactly who the Zune is targeted for.

I agree with Donald, apart from the "get rid of WiFi." Wireless sync is the most useful method of updating my media when you have things like daily podcasts or channels. Just plug it in, away from your computer, and the software starts, downloads podcasts and etc, and syncs them. I find this a convenience I cannot live without. Another thing this does is separates your player from your computer and unites it with your home audio system, where is should be. Also, I foresee future Zune players to have as much power as the current desktop software has, including mixview, social capabilities with Zune cards, better looking Zune Marketplace, etc. and for this to happen you will need an internet connection. Microsoft was smart to put WiFi in every Zune because they saw that it will be useful when updating the firmware in every Zune, making each as powerful as the current generation.

And yep, Zune is building up a "cult." I will back Zune until the end. I hope importing it into WM doesnt kill what they have now.
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by mp3addict3 December 5, 2008 4:06 PM PST
I have an iPod and I think the two things that would sell a zune for me would be one, completely revamping the marketplace, I can't find any TV shows I want like scrubs pevious seasons. Two, by taking out the wifi and other non important things the zune would be much thinner, and that is the one thing that I hear most, the zune is a brick. And bring back the Zune 80 finish!
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by catzzy December 5, 2008 6:04 PM PST
I am an older Zune user and I love it! Apparently I am not a "normal" user of this type of device because I am not interested in the music, so the Zune Pass and social aren't important to me.

I use the radio and podcasts features all the time, but that will change now that Zune is compatible with audiobooks. I also like the size and heft of the Zune -- makes it easy to handle, plus it is sturdy enough to take the abuse I tend to give it (and I agree with you Don, the display is excellent and very scratch-proof).

I think MS should market the Zune to us in the older generation because of the radio feature and that it excels with podcasts and audiobooks. We like larger items that we can hold and see more easily. If necessary, make a different version for the younger and the older generation. Why not market to two different audiences?
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by December 8, 2008 7:00 AM PST
My Dad, who is 87, has a Zune and loves it partly because of the radio feature. When he is out on his regular walk he can listen to sports radio. We now have him hooked into podcasts and he is enjoying them as well. The one feature we still can't get to work with the new software are links to the library's audio books. he likes the Zune because he link easily to his computer and the software and controls are easy to use.

I agree that MS needs to think outside the 20 and thirty something music buffs out there. There are a LOT of older folks who want something that they can use with a small amount of help, and that doesn't look down on them for not being hipsters.
by Straga03 December 8, 2008 6:31 PM PST
I loved my old 80GB Zune but it died about a year ago :( And it says to plug it into a computer so it can reset but never did it. I keep it out of keepsake value and worship it over the iPod. I wish there was a system in place to send it to MS and have them fix it for me (for a fee)
by rangel28 December 5, 2008 8:19 PM PST
I think Microsoft made a poor decision to shut out other DRM music sites and force people to get a Zune Pass. I have used Rhapsody now for more than two years and I love it. Why should I give that up for Zune's subscription service?
I have a large music collection and was just in the market for a large capacity (more than 32 GB player). I thought long and hard about the 120 GB Zune or the 120 GB Ipod Classic and I ultimately chose the Classic. Although not great, the Classic has an equalizer, and iTunes has a large collection of video podcasts. But ultimately, if the Zune was open to other subscription services, I would have probably bought the Zune.
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by Kendokill December 8, 2008 8:26 AM PST
You had asked why you should give up a Rhapsody subscription for a Zune one and I thought I'd mention that a Zune subscription costs $15 a month and now you get to keep 10 tracks a month. A cool new feature that just started that I thought I'd share. :)
by ywkhgqo December 8, 2008 10:32 AM PST
Won't you have to get rid of your rhapsody for itunes?
You're thinking doesn't make sense.
You should probably get a rhapsody player
by Straga03 December 8, 2008 6:34 PM PST
I feel strongly that it should come with AT LEAST a basic equalizer, that is the down side I was hoping for them to have. An EQUALIZER IS A MUST at least for people who love music
by bmmb19 December 6, 2008 2:13 AM PST
I know I am in the minority of the minority but here is my problem. I love the zune hardware but I hate windows. I am a zune / linux user - lending some truth to those nonconformist accusations. I have purchased and later returned Ipods several times just because you can use them in linux. I keep returning to the Zune - I think it has become an unhealthy relationship. Am I a battered zune owner?
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by zmoore December 8, 2008 10:13 AM PST
Multi-platform support would certainly be nice. I agree with you on that.
by Thomas_Trumble December 6, 2008 6:14 AM PST
4 excellent ideas, but I'd make open the social idea #1. Zune owners are few, but pretty passionate about our choice. While we can connect via Zune social we have few ways to customize our connections and share music except through the limits built into the software. Those limits also make evangelizing about the Zune pass, device functionality, etc. more difficult. Zune needs to really open that up and let social marketing work for them.
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by 5old13r December 8, 2008 7:25 PM PST
100% correct. The zune is so close to being perfect, but the software is so dismally bad. Zune needs to open up the software

+1 +1 +1 +1 +1 +1 +1 +1 +1 +1
by Trickfest December 6, 2008 6:45 AM PST
Great article, but I have to disagree with you about losing the wi-fi. I share my Zune Pass with my two sons. (A great capability by the way!) And since they often don't have access to my computer, they commonly download music via wi-fi. That solution works out great for them.

I would actually add two features that would personally make the wi-fi much more useful to me:

1) Subscribe and download support for podcasts. Podcasts are the reason I invoke the desktop software and sync my zune 90% of the time.

2) Web browsing of the Zune Marketplace (for music, podcasts *and* video) and then queuing the selected media for wi-fi download directly to the Zune. (With the new XNE update for the Xbox 360, Microsoft already supports this kind of usage for their gaming console. Wouldn't it be grand if the Xbox and Zune marketplaces were merged into one?)

It's not that I don't like the Zune PC software. In fact, I *do* like it, especially the new Mixview. It's just that I'd prefer to be able to use *any* PC (or Mac!) when browsing for new media.
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by castelazo December 7, 2008 11:37 AM PST
I agree... I love the wi-fi and use it very often. I also have my zune in the docking station, so battery is not a problem to me.
by lindtdale December 8, 2008 5:28 AM PST
I love the wifi feature together with the home A/V pack. It charges my Zune, sync my Zune and listen to my music at the same time.
by karmamule December 6, 2008 9:55 AM PST
I also own a Zune, and think it's great. 3 people at work have switched over to Zunes after hearing about it from me and seeing how it worked. Two of the three have a Zune Pass and love it, as do I.

I think your first couple of points are very good, but I too strongly disagree about wi-fi. I use it all the time at home. I often am listening to my Zune while downstairs (my pc for syncing is upstairs) and I'll think of some song or album I want to try, or hear about something while watching TV, and it's great to be able to download it on-the-spot. I also like to fall asleep listening to music sometimes, and appreciate being able to get songs on-the-fly if I think of something not currently on the zune.

We have iPods too, and I think the Zune is a superior product, with the subscription service being the most significant feature it has that the iPod doesn't. I really could never see myself doing without one again unless forced to because the service ended. Now that you can get 10 songs a month to keep forever, even if you end your subscription, just makes it that much better.
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by wmyinzer December 6, 2008 2:50 PM PST
You made some really interesting points. As an owned of a Zune 30, Zune 80 (which was stolen) and a Zune 120, subscription video and Bluetooth connectivity sound amazing. Instead of taking out the Zune's WiFi chip, I think they should install an EQ chip as well as Bluetooth chip and let users decide when they want to use them.

Hell, put a supercharged battery in and still sell the device for a lean 249.99. Many more users would flock to buy it. Also, you should add a syncing feature with Windows Vista's sidebar. Port the weather, stock indicies, etc. all for free.

Then that will get the Zune platform going REAL fast.
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by toosday December 7, 2008 2:43 AM PST
Right on, Donald! There are some awesome points in there. Zune is a nice device and already has quite a few more features than it's rival iPod Classic/Nano, but it lacks the "cool factor" of iPods.

I really don't understand why Zune made Channels feature crippled by the need to have a subscription. It's a great feature, but limited to those who want/need to cough up money. However, the young crowd they are targeting probably aren't exactly sleeping in a bed of money. Heck, I bet lots of musicians would love to have a 10 second ad played every 5 songs or so!

I actually like the idea of wifi, but think it should be turned OFF by default. Many people don't use it, so it just drains their battery.

Allow your Zune to remotely control the Zune desktop software - and your iTunes software. And allow the software to see iTunes. Windows Media Player 12, which will ship with Windows 7, allows users to browse iTunes libraries if they are on the same network. Why not add that functionality to Zune?

Get a touch-screen device out there just for the heck of it. Tons of device-makers have touchscreen devices. Zune might as well, too.

On the business side: Cut a deal with Dell. Back to school specials like "Buy a computer, get a free Zune" moves product.

Market more. Zune (apparently) does lots of marketing alongside concerts, musicians, etc. But print and TV gets the most eyes. I see iPod billboards no matter what part of town I'm in. Then again, this is LA... :)

Oh, and get rid of the Microsoft Points system, please! No one likes it; they just tolerate it. You really want to create something that people simply tolerate?

Finally, you know that demographic that Zune's targeting? More and more are switching to Macs. (Especially college students) Macs aren't supported by Zune. See where I'm gong with this?
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by toosday December 7, 2008 2:52 AM PST
Oh, and one more thing: Variable pricing, ftw!

Seriously, even if iTunes went DRM-free today, I don't think I'd go back due to the fact that they are almost ALWAYS more expensive than AmazonMP3.com or Lala.com

Granted iTunes tries to justify the cost by throwing in a music video with the track, but I don't need a music video, I have YouTube and even the artist's website for that.

I find songs on AmazonMP3 for 89 cents and some on Lala for 79 cents. Why would I go spend 99 cents at iTunes?

Variable pricing, Zune. Variable pricing.... and drop the Microsoft Points shenanigans.
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by imanym December 7, 2008 6:12 AM PST
I do agree with the fact that the Ipod has in some cases won, however, that is indeed no reason to count out the Zune as a loser. I do enjoy my Zune 80. I must admit I was not happy when I first bought it because the software left much to be desired, when the software upgrade came out (3.0) it really changed my attitude towards the device and the product vision. I believe that Microsoft's vision is that any object can change in function and design by the means of software and renewing the entire user interface and make an old product which is dated and mundane into a new shiny and nice product. With that said I believe that the Zune has an ability beyond most other players due to its flat paper like slate. I totally agree with Doanld Bell in the proposition of Microsoft getting those movie videos onto the Zune, and that can be by simply opening up the XBOX Marketplace movies and placing that content on the Zune Marketplace (I really hope this is in the works). The zune is working well for me, it is easy to see what I am selecting when hooked up to my stereo system (and it looks really good on top of my cabinet as well). My major objective was to eliminate the dependency of a CD Jukebox I had from Sony and be able to play all of my music from an MP3 player. Unfortunately ipod would have never worked due to its screen size and I am not ready to commit to the itunes interface. Anyway since the upgrades, I have purchased the 8 gig for my wife and a 120 gig Gears Of War SE...SWEEEEET(I started with the 80 gig). I am not to concerned with the ipod versus Zune argument as I am enjoying the product. Just last week a couple of co-workers saw me playing music from my zune on some portable speakers. They liked the player and wanted to know where to get the best price for it, at lunch they both bought a zune. So, honestly I really could care less who wins as long as I benefit from the fight.
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by masonkid1 December 8, 2008 4:18 AM PST
I actually think that the wifi is fine the way it is. I think that the features it gives are actually useful and worthwhile, and if you think it's killing your battery, then simply turn it off.
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by rorow-me December 8, 2008 4:52 AM PST
Microsoft are the only real competition for apple now.

Let the war start. lets get cheaper ipods and cheaper zunes, better ipods and better zunes
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by jasctt December 8, 2008 4:54 AM PST
I'm sorry to post this again, but it has to be said, I bought a Zune120 a few weeks ago because I wanted a large sized MP3 player to house a larger portion of my collection (have over 8 TB and counting of digital music). I had never owned one before. I do own four Ipod shuffles and an old 20G Ipod. I bought the Zune and loved the look and feel of the thing but the Zune software (its version of Itunes) is DEATH. I'm sorry, but there is no drap and rop. Playlists are a ***** to create. It was a nightmare, honestly. Yes, Itunes sucks and we all agree, but the ease of creating playlists just makes it that: easier. I returned the Zune and am sticking with my shuffles. It's sad, cause I wanted to love the thing to death, but that Zune program is awful. If they ever overhaul that, I'm there, Microsoft. Here's hoping!
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by BenHD December 8, 2008 1:35 PM PST
I used iTunes for about 3 years, and have synced switched to Zune. I don't see any advantage with iTunes playlist creation, and actually much prefer the Zune system. Drag songs to the playlist bucket, and I'm presented with two options. Add to existing, or create a new playlist and name it at the same time. iTunes doesn't work that well. Also, I can choose to sync certain playlists, and not others with my Zune. iTunes offers a total sync or a manual sync, which is a hassle. Combined with intuitive folder watching, mixview, smart playlists, and subscription service, I would argue that Zune Marketplace offers a better experience over iTunes. Only with you'd given it a bit more time before returning a solid device.
by Rick3904 December 8, 2008 4:10 PM PST
All I can say is... EIGHT TERABYTES??? Wow!
by Straga03 December 8, 2008 6:46 PM PST
AGREE It is a piece of ****! But I will not give up (not the same for Vista), but MS has the ability to surpass the a word. Only if they take user input from this year and apply it for once.
by gdam December 23, 2008 11:43 AM PST
I don't know about drap and rop, but it has a great drag and drop feature for creating playlists, burning CDs, etc. I too have both a Zune and an ipod, give me the Zune and the Zune software any day of the week. I can do a little more with the itunes, but it takes a lot longer to do it. The Zune software is much easier.
by LT73 December 8, 2008 5:16 AM PST
Thanks for the excellent article...

It certainly makes my buying decision for a Christmas present more interesting.
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by zmoore December 8, 2008 10:16 AM PST
Buy the Zune, you will not regret it at all. I love mine.

By the way with the new Zune Pass that came out, you also get 10 free songs a month. PLUS, with Zune pass you can listen to all the music you want. I have more than 3,000 songs on my Zune for a little $15 a month it is well worth it. With the 10 free songs a month.. think of it this way, you only pay $5 a month for all the music you could ever want to listen to!!
by LordJPhillip December 8, 2008 5:37 AM PST
For me the Zune has just now become what I wanted. I got the Zune 120 version because space matters to me and the inclusion of audible and overdrive sold me. I also like the feel of the Zune. It seems just a little more professional and less "my 13 year old sister has pink sparkles on hers" to me... if you get my drift...
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by markdoiron December 8, 2008 5:51 AM PST
Get rid of wi-fi? You're kidding me? That's the coolest thing about the Zune! Sure, subscription music is great and anyone not participating (Zune, iPod, or whatever-owner) is losing out on a great feature. But, it's doubly benefited because channels, selecting songs from the FM radio, automatic synching of music and images, song search, etc. all work fantastically because of wi-fi. It needs to be further enhanced. Podcasts would be great. So would subscription video.

I have a friend who has his Zune hooked up in his Jeep. He just leaves it there, and each day new music is added based on what he does on his computer, as well as what channels are up to. It would be nice to see Podcasts included in that. And time-shifted Internet radio stations. Sure, he could just pull the Zune into the house and connect it up to his computer. But that seems so . . . iPod. How boring.

--mark d.
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by MacBook man December 8, 2008 6:01 AM PST
ok, i think the zune 120 is better hardware then the classic, but the nano is a way better piece of hardware then the flash zune (way slimmer, bigger screen, better interface, durable design), and the ipod touch blows any zune out of the water. I use a mac, which means i will never get a zune, but if they even want to try and compete with ipod, THEY MUST HAVE A TOUCHSCREEN COMPETITOR. Do they seriously think they will gain any market share with the iphone and ipod touch out there. I dont know whats wrong with them
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by t3chnomancer December 8, 2008 2:19 PM PST
Technically Microsoft do have a Touchscreen Video/Music Device Which sometimes even has Phone options built in, Just look for the Windows Mobile Devices and you will see them. From a Simple Dell Axim to the Samsung Omnia and beyond the list of MS Touch capable media devices is endless and in far broader use than the Ipod Touch. It is just that they are marketed as PDA devices that removes them from being direct Ipod competitors.
There has been talk that the Future of Zune may lie with the WinMo side of things as WinMo7 is due to feature multi-touch and high-res screens as well as high res cameras and built in storage to rival Iphone's 32 GB but leaving in further expansion from Memory Cards.
The Zune is a dedicated Media Player and the only one that Microsoft have made and it is a dream to use, someone said that they could not drag and drop in the software, well I have been doing that everytime I sync up to get new tracks. As I am based in the UK I am unable to get ZunePass and even have to jump through hoops to get anything Zune but prefer it to the Apple devices and I know that popularity is rising over here. Microsoft need to launch in Europe before everyone that wants one buys one from the States.
by Straga03 December 8, 2008 6:25 PM PST
SURE ADD A TOUCHSCREEN OPTION! With Zunes HUGE screen that would turn me on (although I am already in love with my Zune)
by 5old13r December 8, 2008 7:29 PM PST
I don't think microsoft should copy any more apple products. the 120 Gb zune beats all the other ipod types so they should just work on making it better
by angry jubu December 8, 2008 6:21 AM PST
A cosmetic make-over wouldn't hurt, either.
Reply to this comment
by markdoiron December 8, 2008 7:56 AM PST
A cosmetic make-over? Then they'd be accused of copying Apple all over again! -mark d.
Showing 1 of 6 pages (164 Comments)
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