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January 24, 2009 6:36 AM PST

A double-barrel FLAC attack

by Donald Bell

If you want to hear every detail in your music--every breath, every strum, every rattle--lossless music formats are the only way to go. But if you hate the idea of your precious music files being tied up in some corporation's proprietary format (i.e. Apple Lossless and Windows Media Audio Lossless), the most popular choice out there is FLAC.

Photo of the Iriver SPINN.

The Iriver SPINN can deliver a pocket full of pristine, lossless music encoded in the open-source FLAC format.

(Credit: Corinne Schulze/CBS Interactive)

You can find free programs for Mac, Windows, and Linux that will play and rip FLAC files, but finding a FLAC-compatible MP3 player isn't quite as easy.

I've rounded-up my favorite FLAC-compatible players into two groups: MP3 players with FLAC and Portable Video Players with FLAC. The distinction is really just a formality to keep our comparison charts from busting apart, so definitely give both roundups a look.

It's also worth mentioning that if you own an older iPod and you don't mind tinkering with it, the open-source Rockbox firmware lets you add FLAC audio playback, custom EQ, games, and tons of little surprises.

Have some wisdom to share on why you think people should make the switch to FLAC? Share your experience in the comments section.

Donald Bell is CNET Reviews' senior editor for MP3 players and portable audio, and one half of the MP3 Insider blog and weekly podcast. He also likes getting his hands dirty with digital audio tools for musicians and DJs.
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Add a Comment (Log in or register) Showing 1 of 2 pages (55 Comments)
by forkboy January 24, 2009 8:26 AM PST
Personally, I cannot get excited about a lossless format unless my portable device came with some serious storage. The products outlined in both sets are all under 8GB save one. I imagine one could still get a fair bit of lossless encoded music onto an 8GB player, but is it really worth the hassle of encoding in FLAC and not being able to take a lot of your music with you.
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by January 24, 2009 9:08 PM PST
What you need is the Archos 5. It plays Flac and OGG Vorbis audio as well as the other standards. You could probably store your entire FLAC archive on one of the Archos 5 or 7 players.
by Joseph Moreau January 27, 2009 8:54 PM PST
The Archos 5, on the surface, seems like a great way to go. I bought one right after they announced a firmware update to provide FLAC support. Sadly, the sound quality of the unit just isn't up to scratch. I have a Cowon U5, that sounds much better, but unfortunately only stores 8GB.
by FoxKat January 27, 2009 10:35 PM PST
I would tend to agree with forkboy, however when I listen to music on a portable, I rarely listen for some 18+ hours straight before I have access to my PC and my entire collection. An 8GB storage capacity would allow about 24 CDs at an average of 45 minutes per CD, or 18 hours non-stop. Still, a portable player with 1TB would be nice! ;-)
by bob.mcclenahan January 24, 2009 10:44 AM PST
Can't do FLAC, but I can do Apple Lossless. I do worry that someday Apple will pull the plug on ALAC, and I'll have convert 80,000 lossless tracks to something else. But FLAC files will die someday, too.
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by random truth January 27, 2009 5:53 AM PST
Wow, How bigs your hard drive, thats over 1 terrabyte of music.
by pentest January 27, 2009 10:29 AM PST
Nobody can pull the plug on FLAC.
by BaylorX January 27, 2009 6:09 PM PST
Its probably more like 4 TBs. That's obscene if true.
by FoxKat January 27, 2009 10:44 PM PST
FLAC (Free Lossless Audio Codec) will likely survive for as long as ALAC, if not longer. FLAC stands out as the fastest and most widely supported lossless audio codec, and the only one that at once is non-proprietary, is unencumbered by patents, has an open-source reference implementation, has a well documented format and API, and has several other independent implementations.

In other words, it's FREE, so how could anyone "pull the plug"? Furthermore, why would they? If anyone wants to add lossless playback to their new players, they can add FLAC and pay no royalty fees, but to add ALAC, they must bow to the Apple God (and pay an Un-Godly licensing fee).

As for having to convert someday, in your case, as long as Apple continues to survive, you'll not have to convert...but if Apple dies - well then you MIGHT have to convert your ALAC files to ... are you ready ... FLAC, in order to play them on future players! ALAC is perfect for the Apple lovers, but for the rest of the world, FLAC RULES!!
by koruki January 28, 2009 1:51 PM PST
Its unlikely to happen anytime soon but by the time either of those formats gets outdated the computers will easily convert 80,000 lossless tracks without much fuss. I converted some last week on a new intel i7 with multithreading and it converted a 16 track album in 16 seconds no joke. 80,000 seconds would be 22hours?
by ArtInvent January 24, 2009 12:28 PM PST
I would have to agree with forkboy. And a really good hi-bit MP3, encoded with a good encoder at like 320k bitrate sounds awfully good, and pretty much every player on the planet can play it. Does FLAC sound that much better at the cost of so much storage space? No. But it does turn my 8 GB player from holding 100 albums to one that holds 12 or 15. Kinda sucks. Of course the obvious solution to this is a player with an SDHC slot, since memory prices keep falling through the floor, but this has always been the obvious solution and no one makes one. Somehow we would not think of buying a camera without a memory card slot but the electronics industry has cowed us into accepting media players without one, so they can sell us a new player every two years.
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by sshappyjack January 24, 2009 7:25 PM PST
ArtInvent: I own one of the players on the list of "mp3 players with flac", the Cowon d2. It does have a sdhc slot. It sounds fantastic, it is well built, and the battery is rated for 50 hours. I would recommend it to anyone who puts a priority on sound quality.
by shootthecops January 24, 2009 1:54 PM PST
I want to make a correction to your article Donald Bell

>But if you hate the idea of your precious music files being tied up in some corporation's proprietary format (i.e. Apple Lossless and Windows Media Audio Lossless), the most popular choice out there is FLAC.

The most popular lossless music format PERIOD is FLAC. It sounds like you are saying ALAC/WAV are more popular for lossless music, however if you ever visited a bit torrent site you would notice that 90%+ of the lossless music up is in FLAC.
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by BrandeisGrad January 27, 2009 10:06 AM PST
I want to make a different correction to this same line: lossless music files are never "tied up" in a propriety format: one of the key advantages of ANY lossless format (FLAC, Apple Lossless, Windows Media Lossless, etc.) is that you can freely transcode, bit-for-bit, from one format into the other. They are all DRM-free and, by definition, perfect copies. I hate being locked into proprietary formats, but I use Apple Lossless because, right now, it has the most compatibility with the software and hardware I choose to use. If that changes tomorrow, I'll download dBPowerAmp (free), and click my mouse once to transcode all of my ALAC files to FLAC or WMA-lossless or any other lossless format. Zero lock-in.

I repeat this often: I really wish CNET editors would make this characteristic of lossless files more clear to readers.
by shootthecops February 4, 2009 5:19 PM PST
actually your statement is incorrect. while transcoding audio from ALAC->FLAC and between other formats will result in the exact same audio signal, proprietary formats such as ALAC often limit transcoding software makers from being able to do this via patents or demanding licensing fees.
by Penguinisto January 24, 2009 5:40 PM PST
Err, y'all know that AAC is not an Apple standard (and certainly not "Apple Lossless"), right?

Read for yourself: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Advanced_Audio_Coding

FLAC and OGG I do like though, since neither are patent-encumbered in any shape or form.
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by Imalittleteapot January 24, 2009 8:28 PM PST
I prefer OGG over FLAC. I went OGG a long time ago, but I just keep the CD collection and add to it in case I have to recode and then I keep a subset of my music in MP3 for easy transfer to my devices. Cumbersome solution right now though. The only thing that saves me at all is the fact that I listen to most of my music right off the comp instead of from a device. I'm planning on buying a new device though. Any suggestions on good devices with FLAC and OGG support peng?
by zip22 January 25, 2009 6:21 PM PST
This article is not talking about AAC, it is talking able ALAC (Apple Lossless Audio Codec). ALAC is Apple's proprietary lossless format (although cowon is supporting it in some of their newer players). Read for yourself: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alac
by qozmiq January 25, 2009 11:01 AM PST
If the need for a larger device is holding you up from using *.flac, then you are sacrificing audio quality for the sake of space...which is more important to you?
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by estehmanistanpagula January 25, 2009 9:36 PM PST
I'm a huge fan of FLAC format, ever since i knew about this format, i re-encode every CD i have to FLAC format (yeah, that crazy). But the idea of having lossless media in portable media player, somehow, useless to me.

Let say, there is the perfect device out there for Lossless formats, huge capacity, produce a terrific sound, great in everything, and comes with great ear-phones too. But still, if we use it inside the subway, or while paddling the bicycle in the city, how are we suppose to enjoy "the breath, the strum, the rattle"? when we're surrounded with horns from the "extremely understanding" driver, and of course, the "well mannered" gentleman with his phone call sitting next to us in the subway. Crank the sound volume to the top? then say goodbye to your ear drums. Yeah sure, there's noise cancellation ear-phones and headphones, but using it while you're on the road? i don't think so. Hear it while you're on the house? well, what's portable about that?

I mean, i'm not an anti-portable player guy, i do have portable player, i love listening to my fav music with it, and updating myself with the latest podcast, but can we really enjoy lossless audio format on the road?

If we can tolerate with a certain degree of "quality-loss" due to listening lossless audio in the middle of a noisy environment, why not tolerate lossy audio format in portable device?
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by alan_guy January 28, 2009 4:59 AM PST
I don?t think that portable listening would always be in noisy environments or while in transit.

Portable headphone listening to me would mean anytime you are not listening to music in the same room as your nice audio system.

Possible places could be: at a lake as the sun rises, in the backyard watching the leaves fall off the trees in the fall, at someone's house who doesn?t have the same music or quality of audio system, laying down in your bed if your best audio system is not in your bedroom, on a park bench in the spring etc.

I have nothing against making required travel more bearable by listening to a portable music player, but portable can also mean not tethered to the living room stereo.
by G_Slade January 30, 2009 4:46 AM PST
"or while paddling the bicycle in the city"

How the hell do you paddle a bicycle?!
by tvphil January 25, 2009 10:55 PM PST
Donald, you forgot to list your editor's choice from a year ago, the Cowon iAudio7. It also offers a 16 GB version and it 's also a much smaller player than the D2.
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by dodgeman007 January 26, 2009 4:49 AM PST
wow, does anyone actually think any portable system and headphone unit is worthy of a flac recording? I can agree that I can tell when im listening to an mp3 of any quality on my home theater but for a portable recording your just fooling youself... its a huge waste of space on a portable player IMHO. and with all the other noises outside in the "real world" your not getting it....
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by ender21 January 26, 2009 6:10 AM PST
This is all also assuming there are those last breaths, strums, etc., present in the CD in the first place. Last I checked, the Loudness Wars had claimed victory over most CD recordings as well, rendering them as dynamically compressed as most MP3s.
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by FoxKat January 27, 2009 10:56 PM PST
It's not just the breaths, strums, etc. that FLAC allows you to hear, it's the accuracy of the source material, no matter how well (or not so well) it was mastered, produced, compressed. I can pick out an MP3 even if it's encoded at 320kbps, depending on the source material. Just listen to the cymbals, the percussion, and many other high-frequency sounds and you will hear what's commonly referred to as "warbling", often compared to a gargling sound. It's highly disturbing to hear a song being distorted like that. It is an un-natural sounding distortion that (at least my) ears are able to pick up quite easily once you know what it sounds like.
by ender21 January 31, 2009 9:31 PM PST
Oh I agree, FoxKat. I was just throwing a cynical wrench into the argument given that CDs are no longer a pristine source (if they ever were). I'd be a bigger proponent of FLAC if there were wider support with off-the-shelf products that didn't require hacks (i.e., iPod). I was a musician for 10+ years and I've heard how good digital recordings of music can sound provided they're done well, with cymbals being a key example of a recording's quality.

When in doubt, preserve the highest quality possible. You can always go down if/when necessary, but you can never go back up.
by ensaburnur January 27, 2009 5:27 AM PST
The last two comments say it all. There are many factors in high quality music reproduction. Even if everything is perfect in the music reproduction chain, you still have to consider the enviorment and a persons' hearing. Do human beings' hearing get better as we age, stay the same, or decrease? Alot of this stuff is marketing and "the placebo effect" at work.
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by kasrhp1 January 27, 2009 5:54 AM PST
Actually, to all of you who think its a big waste to have FLAC....it really does make a huge difference listening to FLAC. The warmth of the songs are there, the deptch. The bass is clear and accurate. The differences in the pitch, the highs, mids, lows are all overly abbundant while listening to FLAC. The difference is huge listening to all genre, from hip hop to classis rock to classical. The big thing with it is that you need some good headphones to be able to tell the difference. Also, a lot of players dont push out enough juice to be able to tell the difference. Thats where the headphone amps, etc come in.. There are only a handful of players out there that are worthy of putting out good sound for a portable device. The Cowon players, couple Sansa players(clip esp.), couple Samsung, and the iriver(Zune sounds great with WMA too). So for the audioheads that like great sounding music, gets one of these players, some good headphones and your off. I would def not recommend lossless on any ipod or 90% of the players out there. They just dont have the juice to sound halfway descent. Might as well keep the tinny headphones with em too.
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by MongooseProXC January 27, 2009 6:57 AM PST
AAC is fine and most music players support it. Even my cell phone plays .M4A files. Flak, oog, whatever do not need to hop on a file format bandwagon to make things even more confusing. Apple and Dolby came up with a great format, we don't need some yahoos trying to copy what they have already done.
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by linhlh January 27, 2009 7:29 AM PST
FLAC only shines dramatically over mp3 if you have good DAC/amp and headphone too. I don't think FLAC on a mp3 player will make much difference ( even with high-end earphone), and it is just a waste of space ( especially for those flash DAPs with only 8Gb storage)
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by forkboy January 27, 2009 9:20 AM PST
@qozmiq

I'm not stating that I or anyone else should desire to select quantity over quality, but I believe the vast majority of MP3 player users are looking for a reasonable mix of both quantity and quality, but with most leaning towards quantity.

I would postulate that most users are listening casually and will not notice the loss of certain musical nuances, subtleties, etc. that come with using a compression-based codec. I know that I very much enjoy the sound quality of my MP3 stored music because I elect to utilize WMA VBR set at it's highest bit rate setting.

One should also consider the practicality of transferring to one's computer an entire collection of CDs, encoded loseless. One would need some serious storage space if one's collection exceeded anything near 200 or more CDs.

If you need evidence of the lack of concern about sound quality just look at how successful are music download services, who often utilize mediocre bit rates in the first place.

I personally would love to use a loseless codec, but I simply don't find the computer storage needs reasonable and I'm not certain I would ever notice the improved quality of sound while sitting onboard an airplane listening to Human Disease from Skinny Puppy.
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by linhlh January 27, 2009 11:03 AM PST
Agreed.
Mainstream consumers who can notice the difference between lossless and highly encoded mp3 are serious listeners or audiophiles only. And those people don't listen to music "seriously" while moving anyway. They do mostly with their high-end home system or at least with an amp and headphone while on the way.
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by January 27, 2009 12:45 PM PST
Can someone help clear my confusion? I've read that Apple lossless is not truly lossless. There is some audio compression present. Is this the same with Windows Media lossless?
Is FLAC a true lossless format as well? 100% equal to what's comes from a CD ?
And finally, if FLAC is not the answer, is there a way to copy your CD directly to a harddrive in whatever format a CD encodes? If there is, i'm guessing the only thing holding a Zune or equivalent back from recording a CD directly is the limitations of accepted formats?

Thanks
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by MSSlayer January 27, 2009 9:50 PM PST
All lossless uses compression, but it is not one way like mp3. The difference is that nothing is lost, hence the term lossless. If they didn't produce smaller files, then what is the point, just copy the songs directly off the CD. Think of it as a specialized, faster to decompress zip file.
by reciprocalinhibition January 31, 2009 10:03 AM PST
All lossless do use compression, but for important matters, FLAC is the only current format that can be converted back to WAV within <1% error tolerance. Use a program like NERO that can chart this and you'll see noticeable compression using any other format. This thread is relatively accurate and answers what CNET has failed to make obvious about the format.

http://forum.sounddomain.com/ubbthreads.php/ubb/showflat/Number/1496540/page/1#Post1496540

Storage should no longer be an issue for the format given technological developments. This format helps deliver ability to make accurate music reproduction while compressing music by almost 50%. It's almost sad that the last "accepted" improvement in recording quality was WAV format in the late 1980's... There's potential, it's educating enough people to stop this "dumbing down" of consumer America.
by ender21 January 31, 2009 9:34 PM PST
Here's another good comparison. It didn't go far enough with the testing, in my opinion, but it's still good info:

http://www.stereophile.com/features/308mp3cd/index.html
by reciprocalinhibition February 1, 2009 12:25 PM PST
Ender's link is better. That's a really well designed comparison.
by make_or_break January 27, 2009 12:58 PM PST
From Day 1 with my first MP3 player (an ancient iRiver) I believed lossless was a big waste of time with regards to portable usage. Even though the sonic quality of the gear has improved considerably since then, it's still a waste of effort and resources. The environments that most portables are used in makes using lossless seem frivolous given the ambient noise levels and the compromises with storage cap, not to mention the NEED for allowing surrounding sounds to filter in because of safety concerns. And I agree with others who observe that even compatible FLAC devices don't offer the sort of amplification necessary to properly drive a good set of cans. I suppose if you really want to be oblivious to your surroundings and enjoy toting around additional gear like a headphone amp...go for it. But it seems to me that FLAC--and any other lossless format--is at its best in controlled environments. Anyplace else, like a portable or a mobile setup in a car, is too sorely compromised for it to matter.
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by clem_cowsie January 27, 2009 2:31 PM PST
In all honesty, though, people have to realize that if you're going to go lossless, not only do you need the file format. You need the memory, proper gear, and enough money and time to invest into finding the right mp3, amps, headphones, etc. Just ripping songs from CDs at ____kbps isn't going to suddenly POOF make everything sound better. For some reason I have a few songs encoded at 320kbps, and the majority of the rest of my music encoded at 128 - 192 kbps, and they all sound pretty much the same through my Panasonics. See what I mean?
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by Howbecome January 27, 2009 2:35 PM PST
FLACs are incredible for playback at home through a PC using an outboard DAC. Sound is terrific. Storage is efficient. Convenience is awesome.

I use media monkey to play my FLAC files and also to copy them to mp3s at 192 (to a separate directory so they don't muck up my FLAC library - cool media monkey feature) for portable use. Two reasons for this dual format use. 1) MP3s use up less battery life than playback of lossless files. 2) As noted by others, the mobile playback environment (air, motorcycle, train, bus) doesn't really lend itself to appreciation of the lossless files. Using MP3s at 192 on my portable gives me lots of tunes, good battery life and satisfactory audio playback.
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