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October 16, 2009 6:22 AM PDT

Archos 5 highs and lows

by Donald Bell
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Update: CNET's full review of the Archos 5 is now available.

I've had my hands on the Archos 5 Android internet tablet for more than seven days now, and to be honest, I'm still not sure what to make of it. What's hanging up the review isn't the price (which starts at $249), or capacity (up to 500GB), or the impressive selection of features; it's the devices spotty performance. So far, some stuff just doesn't work as advertised.

Photo of the Archos 5 using GPS.

GPS reception on the Archos 5 takes several minutes to lock-on to a valid signal. Frankly, I don't often use GPS, but if Archos is going to promise it, then I want it to work.

(Credit: Donald Bell/CNET)

If this were Apple or Microsoft, these performance glitches would probably have me spitting venom right now, but Archos is a relatively small company. Chalk it up to looking out for the little guy, but I'm going to give Archos the benefit of the doubt that many of the issues I'm experiencing will be fixed quickly with firmware updates and swept under the rug. In fact, a firmware update earlier this week (v1.1.01) already addressed a problem I had accessing content from microSD cards. In a perfect world, products wouldn't leave the warehouse half-baked--but every company is guilty of it to some degree.

My contact at Archos says there will be another firmware update available next week. Assuming this next round will iron out the kinks, I'm going to hold off on a formal review until then. Of course, I'm also advising that potential buyers wait until our rated review is up before investing in an Archos 5. Considering that Amazon recently froze sales of the 160GB model of the Archos 5, I think it's safe to assume that I'm not the only one having some issues.

Now, true to the title of this piece, my time with the Archos 5 has had its share of bright spots too. Most notably, its video player is one of the best I've used on any device. Unlike previous versions of Archos PVPs, the Archos 5 ships with all the critical video codecs installed, instead of requiring users to purchase codec plug-ins individually. My HD video podcasts, XviD torrents, AVIs, and WMVs all play flawlessly. Videos look great on it too, with the 4.8-inch 800x480-pixel resolution LCD that gives a rich and razor-sharp picture that holds up well, even in daylight. By extension, photos also look great on the Archos 5--although thumbnail previews and transitions aren't nearly as fast and fluid as on the iPod Touch.


If you ask me, the Archos 5's video player alone is worth the price of the whole device, assuming that digital video is really your cup of tea. Unfortunately, as a company, I think Archos is a little tired of being cast as a portable video player manufacturer. Looking at the packaging for the Archos 5, you'd hardly know the device played videos at all. According to the box, this is an "Internet tablet," a term Archos has whittled down from the "Internet media tablet" we saw last year. The choice of phrasing seems particularly odd considering that the device's media features are stronger than ever. I assume Archos wants people to understand in no uncertain terms that they are in the tablet business, in spite of seven years spent manufacturing media players.

But if Archos wants to sell its tablet on the strength of Android apps, GPS, Web browser, and e-mail, I have a hard time believing the device will succeed in its current state. Granted, the Android browser and e-mail work much better than the Opera browser and Archos e-mail client from last year's model, but features such as multitouch or capacitive screen technology are still absent. If the Archos 5 is going to be a productivity or communication device, it not only needs to work, but it also needs to be fast. After just finishing my evaluations of the latest iPod Touch and the Zune HD, the Archos 5 feels a bit sluggish by comparison.

Photo of apps on Archos 5 android tablet.

Multimedia apps Deezer and Dailymotion come preinstalled on the Archos 5. I'd trade them both in an instant for Pandora's Android app, but it's not available in the limited selection of apps for the Archos 5.

(Credit: Donald Bell/CNET)

Let's also talk about the apps. In theory, the inclusion of Android apps is a great asset to the Archos 5, giving it a flexibility and extendability to compete against the iPod Touch. In practice, however, the app selection is hardly dazzling and the majority of Android apps are not yet supported. Out of the box, Archos includes an app for Twitter, an IM client, LinkedIn, Wikipedia, Craigslist, Moov, High Paying Jobs, Yellowbook, and a ThinkFree app for opening Office and PDF documents. But aside from the IM client and the document viewer, none of these apps really offers anything you couldn't get just from using the Web browser. Granted, the same complaint can be made of many iPhone apps, but if these are the killer apps that Archos deemed good enough to preinstall, I'm not impressed. Also, the two included media apps (Dailymotion and Deezer) may be popular in Archos' native France, but here in the U.S. they have relatively little traction. With any luck, someone will bring the YouTube, Pandora, Slacker, and Last.fm Android apps to the Archos 5 models sold in the states.

Then there's its GPS feature. Last year, users had to shell out an extra $130 for a car dock to turn the Archos 5 into a full-fledged GPS unit. Even then, it was a car-only system that you couldn't walk with for city maps and local points of interest. In the latest Archos 5, GPS is built right into the hardware. Users will need to pay a one-time fee of $39 to activate the maps, but after that, you have a complete NDrive GPS navigation system. It's really an awesome feature, and a clear advantage over the iPod Touch, but the problem comes down to performance. Under the current firmware (1.1.01), its GPS reception is spotty and takes an inordinate amount of time to locate a signal. After talking with Archos about the issue, they acknowledged the problem exists and told me that next week's firmware update should improve things. Currently, though, if I need to get somewhere, I'm not going to sit and wait five minutes in my car while the Archos 5 strains to locate a GPS signal. I'm glad the GPS works--but if it doesn't work quickly, I'm never going to really use it.

So that's the nitty-gritty on my experience with the Archos 5 so far. And again, in spite of my criticisms of the Archos 5 as an "Internet tablet," GPS unit, and productivity or communications device, it's still a fantastic media player and one of the best video devices on the market. If you have any specific questions about the device, feel free to post them in the comments section and I'll try my best to address them.

The following products mentioned are available.

On Sale Now: $379.99
View the latest prices for Archos 5 Internet tablet with Android (32GB)

On Sale Now: $299.99
View the latest prices for Archos 5 Internet tablet with Android (16GB)

On Sale Now: $485.99
View the latest prices for Archos 5 Internet tablet with Android (500GB)

Donald Bell is CNET Reviews' senior editor for MP3 players and portable audio, and one half of the MP3 Insider blog and weekly podcast. He also likes getting his hands dirty with digital audio tools for musicians and DJs.
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by mhybers October 16, 2009 7:04 AM PDT
Have you logged much time with music on the Archos yet? How's the sound quality? The Sony has spoiled me on music as I have yet to find any other player on the market that offers a bigger, clearer sound than the S Series Walkman.
Reply to this comment
by audiodonald October 16, 2009 8:43 AM PDT
Nothing except the X-Series Walkman is going to outdo the S-Series. I haven't done any side-by-side comparisons with the Archos yet, but overall it sounds good. You get a handful of EQ presets along with a custom EQ. I tested the new FM transmitter but didn't have much success, but most transmitters I test have a hard time cutting through in the SF bay area).
by Charbax October 16, 2009 8:51 AM PDT
Hi, I am testing it these days and posting my findings at http://archosfans.com

I believe there are Last.fm, Youtube, Pandora, Slacker apps that work on Archos Android already. Cause even if the Apps may not be optimized for Archos 800x480 screen, you can often just look for the .apk file for each of those apps and simply double click on the .apk file in Archos to install them.

Though for sure there needs to be many more "killer applications" not only added to Archos Android, but added to 800x480 Android and to Android in general. For example we should be getting real VOIP apps, not fake VOIP apps. There should be a high resolution Google Wave client, super optimized remote-desktop apps, desktop virtualization apps, yes I want many more features in a Last.fm app like caching of files so they play while offline, click to "Download all tracks by this artist" option. Sopcast p2p video player, BitTorrent downloader, and I think the best app of all would be a super powerful Podcatcher application like Google Listen but for videos.

According to the replies that I got from a contact at Archos as you can read on my blog, they are waiting for Google to allow Archos to use the Google Apps as well. We really need the real Gmail client and Google Maps. Google should also release a version of the Marketplace where Google itself does all the filtering to make sure only verified compatible apps in terms of screen resolution and hardware features can be listed.
Reply to this comment
by pmpuser77 October 16, 2009 9:10 AM PDT
Thanks for the heads-up Donald. Being someone whose job involves sitting in front of a computer all day, internet and apps are an afterthought for me when it comes to a device like this, a nice feature to have, but not necessary. I used my previous Archos mainly for watching TV shows & movies, and listening to music while on Bart, and I loved it. After nearly two years (about 20 months)...the battery on my 605 lasts less than 1 hour on charge...so I guess it's time to upgrade.
Donald...did you get a chance to play with the 500gb version? If so how does it compare in size to the 605? I'm worried that it's a lot bigger. Also, how's the battery life? I know they rate it at 7 hours video, but a real world test would be much appreciated.
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by audiodonald October 16, 2009 12:43 PM PDT
I was able to play with one of the HDD models for a little while and the extra thickness didn't seem like a deal-breaker. There's a shot of a flash and HDD model stacked on their sides in the slideshow that shows off the thickness, but keep in mind that the flash model is thinner than last year's Archos 5.

http://reviews.cnet.com/2300-6490_7-10001557-4.html?tag=mncol;txt
by Charbax October 16, 2009 9:14 AM PDT
Also about your concern on speed and this GPS thing, I believe Archos has the industry's most powerful processor in ARM Cortex A8 at 800mhz OMAP3440, so speed could not really be Archos fault, rather probably Android software may need more optimizations.

For example, the Ndrive GPS app that Archos will sell, it's just going to be one GPS Android app among many others. The GPS chip in this device works for any other location-based or GPS navigation apps that anyone would release for Android, but of course preferably apps optimized for the 800x480 screen resolution.

For example, it is possible that Tomtom release an Android application, eventually Google Maps could work and perhaps integrate turn by turn overlay as well as that awesome Google LatLong feature that shares location to provide real-time traffic reports.

Then finally, I am used to Archos touchscreens for more than 5 years since the PMA400, and there has been resistive touchscreens in PDAs and smartphones for 10 years, people have not really complained that much. Sure capacitative may feel like it's faster, what is happening is more something to do with light touches being registered whereas resistive requires slight force be used on the touch. Of course you know all this. Anyways, I don't believe there even exists 800x480 4.8" capacitative screens in any other device on the market, so one could define it as a slight trade-off, that if you want capacitative you have to get 3.5" or lower, while if you want 2x larger screen with 2.5x more pixels on the screen, there is no other than resistive, and my experience with this device is that there probably the best resistive screen implementation yet.
Reply to this comment
by audiodonald October 16, 2009 12:56 PM PDT
In the absence of multi-touch and a capacitive screen, the extra screen real estate on the Archos 5 does go a long way to help with keyboard accuracy, since the letters aren't nearly as cramped as the Touch. But the little things like swiping your fingers to scroll lists, or pressing the zoom buttons on photos and web pages (no multi-touch=no pinching gestures) just seem to respond slowly compared to the small-screen competition. It's a picky detail, but once you've become accustomed to the immediacy of a Touch or Zune HD, it's hard to go back. It's like how I hate using my DSL at home after spending day using the faster connection on my work computer--your brain gets used to a certain response time expectation.
by October 16, 2009 9:27 AM PDT
i have so far had nothing but trouble trying to play MKV video files on my Archos 5 internet tablet and the archos fans website is awash with people having similar problems. Archos have potentially a rea killer device here, if only it worked and did what they said it would do. Ive had mine about 9 days so far and my excitement is fading. Frequent crashes and its refusal to play any of my videos is a real shame. Ill wait impatiently for the update but i wont hold my breath.
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by audiodonald October 16, 2009 1:00 PM PDT
Oooh, I have to admit, MKV is a file type I didn't throw at it. I'll dig one up and test it out. Thanks for the heads-up.
by Firehazel October 16, 2009 4:02 PM PDT
and what about RMVB? I have a tone of those...
by clwendy October 16, 2009 10:17 AM PDT
The sluggishness isn't caused by software or hardware. It is the problem that Archos consistently turns off the hard drive when not in use. Getting the hard drive to turn on takes a bit of time.

Also, hard drives are not as fast at random access than the flash memory. Loading up thumbnails will take longer on a hard drive.
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by audiodonald October 16, 2009 1:04 PM PDT
Actually, the test unit I have is a 32GB flash memory model, so the hard drive isn't the issue. That said, it's likely that the sluggishness is more noticeable on HDD models. It's something I always notice on the iPod Classic compared to the Nano--a noticeable delay when scrolling and selecting files.
by Brent212 October 16, 2009 1:11 PM PDT
The more I hear about how bad the FM transmitter performance is and the small number of phones that tethering works with, the less interested I become.
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by sanka38 October 16, 2009 1:28 PM PDT
I currently am using the Archos 5 IMT, but very curious about the Android. Do you know if the accessories of the previous models work with this new one? Or will i have to go out and buy all new ones, like I did every time I upgraded? This is a little off topic, but will you guys be reviewing the Archos 3? I am very curious about the 3 due to its size and variety of video formats that it plays.
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by audiodonald October 16, 2009 2:35 PM PDT
I believe most of the Gen 5 accessories from last year will work with the new model, except the in-car GPS cradle is now basically a charging base and doesn't include any extra GPS antennas (I expect it will be much less expensive, though). All the rest--the DVR snap-on, battery back, TV-Out, Mini-Dock, should be compatible. There's even a new HDMI snap-on available.

http://www.archos.com/products/imt/archos_5it/accessories.html?country=ru&lang=en&p=hdminidock
by locohuge October 16, 2009 1:28 PM PDT
Interesting, nice heads up, I like this product but again they need to fix this issues before I invest my money in one of them, I'll be waiting for the next software upgrade and see what you'll have say.

I'm also interested in MKV HD Files, MP4 (H264 and x264) HD Files, I watch Anime and the best quality video is in this two formats, thanks.
Reply to this comment
by October 16, 2009 4:07 PM PDT
I like the critical review, let's hope the improvements will come. I have a question about the video output I was hoping you or anyone could answer: Is video output limited to Video and Browsing or will it output exactly what the Archos is displaying (i.e. Android etc)? My question stems from the fact that I don't understand how the traditional Archos functions (Video, Web etc) mesh with the Android interface.
Reply to this comment
by audiodonald October 16, 2009 7:52 PM PDT
Good question. Check out the last shot of the slide show.
http://reviews.cnet.com/2300-6490_7-10001557-15.html

As you can see, the dock outputs everything. The remote includes a QWERTY keypad and a nub for navigating around the screen.
by vafifty4 October 16, 2009 5:19 PM PDT
Does is it come with any maps pre-installed?
Reply to this comment
by October 16, 2009 6:01 PM PDT
I am reading reviews continuously, they keep varying from person to person apart from crashes there is not a lot mentioned, can somebody quantify the crashes and doing exactly what does it crash?
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by chengbin October 16, 2009 6:25 PM PDT
@Donald

I just want to give you some advice in testing MKVs. Video support is dramatically improved in this generation by being the first PMP to support 720p H.264 at high profile (much much more demanding than the iPod Touch and Zune HD's baseline profile)

It is definitely not without flaws. Right now it doesn't like 30fps 720p H.264 videos. So try one with a frame rate of 23.976.

Also, don't use an anime MKV. Anime MKV are encoded for maximum efficiency (because of the nature of the material, allowing "insane" x264 settings to be benefitted where 0 benefit is seen on others). They usually have very high numbers of b and ref frames, and some even have variable frame rate. These are impossible to support on a DSP, at least for the next few years.

Overall it is an excellent video player. In fact, it is THE BEST portable video player on the market (nothing touches its decoding capabilities and format support). Even though 720p H.264 high profile support isn't perfect, it is light years ahead of what iPods and Zune HDs are capable of decoding.

BTW, high profile is at least twice as efficient than baseline profile, which is why I'm stressing its importance. It is also much much harder to decode on hardware DSPs, mainly because CABAC is not pipelined, so it ends up about 5 times more difficult to decode on a DSP.
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by doggymcnuggets2 October 16, 2009 8:23 PM PDT
I've owned 3 generations of Archos players going back to the Gmini 400. It seems to me Archos has become increasingly less committed to working out the bugs in their devices before (and after) release. I suppose it has to do with the growing sophistication of the features & functions of the units, but when they don't work as claimed it is quite frustrating. I appreciate you holding off to review the unit after the next firmware upgrade. As a former Archos fanboy I would now warn potential buyers to make sure they do their research before buying. My 504 with the metal case suffered from constant freeze ups caused by static electricity (would have thought the engineers would have considered that risk). My 605 wifi locks up all the time & drives me a little crazy. Hope this generation fares better.
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by bhartman33 October 18, 2009 8:58 PM PDT
I've noticed this trend, too. My first Archos device was the 20GB Archos Jukebox Studio 20. Nice little device that worked as advertised. Soon after, I updated to the Rockbox firmware, which was an improvement over the original Archos firmware.

I've had various Archos devices since then, including the Gmini XS202, the 504, the 604, and, most recently, the 605 Wifi. The 504 and 604 were both disasters. Poor battery life, skipping, and just plain [i]dying[/i] unexpectedly. The support for the XS202 and the 504 were both pretty good, but the support experience for the 604 (three retunrs, none of which fixed the problem) was miserable. And the updates to the firmware stopped coming within a few months.

My 605 Wifi, on the other hand, has been a good and faithful servant, so I was hoping that Archos was actually starting to get its act together. After the 605 Wifi gives up the ghost, I might actually have to choose between the iPod Touch and the Zune HD. Choosing between Apple and Microsoft for a media player isn't a choice I ever hoped to be faced with...
by locohuge October 16, 2009 9:20 PM PDT
Thanks to chengbin for the MKV advice.
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by georgee79 October 17, 2009 6:06 AM PDT
I have an ARCHOS 5 old genaration ,records from sattelite box fine , dont use cables in the box ,use your own componet cables, and scart form the unit to sattilte box , works flawlessly , minor crashes if using the browser and you push the return touch botton ,hd drive cant keep up , videp and photos best i seen seen on a portable device, prefer my old one to the android unit ,use mine only for video, have too mant touch screen phones for internet ,plus laptop dont need this fot internet.
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by Pingmeister October 17, 2009 12:38 PM PDT
We are looking for a tablet for the living room for web-browsing while watching TV or when we have guests, etc. Our netbook takes too long to boot and is cumbersome with the keyboard.

I had tried using my wife's Archos 604 WiFi but the browser is painfully slow.

My target product is pretty much my iPhone with a much larger screen. I am hoping to get something soon (not wanting to wait until Apple's fabled Tablet hits the market).

How is browsing on the Archos "Tablet"? I will certainly miss the iPhone's multitouch zoom, though. Perhaps the Archos screen is big enough not to have to zoom so much.
Reply to this comment
by Charbax October 17, 2009 6:04 PM PDT
No need to zoom on Archos, the screen is 2x larger than iphone, with 2.5x more pixels on the screen.

The processor is probably around 10x faster than on 604 WiFi. Moore's law says doubling every 18 months, 604 WiFi was released about 36 months ago for 1.5 more expensive, thus Archos (or Texas Instruments the processor provider) evolve about 4x faster than Intel-based Moore's law.
by jason1692 October 19, 2009 8:07 AM PDT
charbax, off topic but moores law applies to the fastest processor available not any processor made. it refers to the amount of transistors n other delicious goodies we can fit on a chip. look at the very highest end amd or intel or anyone who makes chips for supercomputers n u will c moores law at work. picky ik lol...
by audiodonald October 19, 2009 8:22 AM PDT
If pocket-portability isn't a big concern, I would hold out for the Archos 9. The A9 is a proper tablet and the screen really is big enough to not require much zooming.

http://www.archos.com/products/nb/archos_9/index.html?country=dj&lang=en
by raovb October 18, 2009 7:07 AM PDT
@ Donald, Did you try using the 500 GB hard drive model as an external hard drive? I read some where that it is only possible in Linux :(
Reply to this comment
by Dominick_7 October 19, 2009 5:17 AM PDT
What are the main differences between the Archos 5 and the Archos 5 Internet Tablet other than a lack of Android?
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by audiodonald October 19, 2009 8:26 AM PDT
Integrated GPS, pre-installed codec support for most audio and video formats, FM radio/transmitter, Android apps, Android web browser and email, modified UI, Flash memory models allowing a considerably thinner design, MicroSD card support (Flash models only), and mobile phone tethering. I'm probably missing something.
by jason1692 October 19, 2009 8:10 AM PDT
perhaps things like this will eventually replace dvd's and blu rays and all disk formats, i for one would be really happy lol i hate how easily scratched cd's r, tho ive read blu rays r harder to scratch,
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