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November 9, 2007 7:04 AM PST

Time Machine: Small troubles and the big picture

by CNET staff

Here's some more Time Machine news. If you're seeing any of these phenomena, take heart: you're not alone.

LaCie USB drives We're hearing of cases where an external LaCie drive, although seen by the Finder, is not seen by Time Machine. LaCie is giving the same advice we gave earlier: repartition the drive. But some users are reporting that this isn't helping. In some cases there seems to be a difference between USB and FireWire; for example, Time Machine might not back up to the drive when it is connected via USB, but will do so when the very same drive is connected via FireWire.

Battery power A thread over on Apple's discussion boards suggests that some people are finding Time Machine won't perform an automatic backup from a portable computer if the portable is running on battery power (though it will perform a manual backup when requested to via the Time Machine Dock menu). This could be deliberate; perhaps Time Machine would prefer not to initiate a time-consuming, sleep-preventing activity and risk draining the battery.

Recurring dialog A reader is reporting that every external drive newly hooked up to the computer triggers the Time Machine dialog where it asks whether to use this drive as the backup. It's not hard to see how this annoyance could get old real fast.

In addition, recall our earlier notes about problems with Time Machine remarked upon by Apple themselves, in the Knowledge Base:

  • Time Machine may not change the backup destination when requested, unless you log out and log back in.

  • Time Machine may not show past backups if your computer's name (from the Sharing preferences) contains characters outside the basic a-z, 0-9 range.

  • Time Machine might refuse to back up files past a certain point unless you have repartitioned the backup drive to remove any master boot record. Only Apple Partition Map and GUID partitioning is acceptable.

All of these problems are a great pity, especially since they needn't have occurred in the first place. The main trouble here seems to be haste. There are signs that some of the functionality intended for Time Machine (such as the ability to back up across a network) was removed more or less at the last minute, in order to get Time Machine out the door in time for Leopard to ship by the end of October. In the rush, we may conjecture, Apple failed to provide users with some elementary GUI feedback that would have taken care of many issues we're now seeing. For example, it's very strange that Time Machine can't make a backup if it doesn't like your computer's name, but this wouldn't really be a problem, if Time Machine would just put up a dialog, saying, "Sorry, I can't make a backup, I'm having trouble with your computer's name; would you mind changing it?" Instead, Time Machine just fails silently. That's the real problem, as things stand.

In a recent article in Computerworld, a LaCie representative takes Time Machine to task for the master boot record problem and the computer name problem: Apple seems to have failed to test sufficiently, he says, and is only now discovering these things, after the release of Leopard. Perhaps, but these are relatively minor issues; there are simple workarounds, and Apple has told us what they are. Making a big deal of this in public might be a sleight-of-hand on LaCie's part. People who are having trouble with LaCie drives not being seen by Time Machine are saying that they have okay computer names and that they have repartitioned the drive; so in these cases, something else is apparently going on, and it might be going on at LaCie's end of the equation. It would presumably be in LaCie's interest to keep the attention focused on Apple's end.

Time Machine may be very simple, perhaps too simple, in its interface and in its abilities; but the fact remains that for most people, with one computer and one external drive hooked up to it, it's working great. Think how many times you've deleted something and later wished you hadn't. Think how many times you've installed a system update and wished you hadn't! Think how many times you've been scolded, or have scolded yourself, for not having a backup of something. Time Machine offers a simple solution. Already we've had reports of people installing something, discovering ill effects, and going "back in time" to restore the computer to an earlier state. That's what Time Machine is all about! Time Machine stands to eliminate, all by itself, a large percentage of the woes with which readers have filled MacFixIt's pages in the past.

So, we continue to recommend that you use Time Machine, and use it with confidence. This is one of the major features of Leopard, and not to take advantage of it is to miss out on something valuable and important. Your habits don't have to change; any time your computer and your backup drive are both switched on and connected, Time Machine will chug away automatically. The one habit that does need to change is that before performing any major installation, you should make sure you've got a backup of the computer's most recent state, so you can easily restore if there's a problem. To make a manual backup, choose Back Up Now from Time Machine's Dock icon. You can monitor the backup's progress in Time Machine's system preference pane. When the backup is complete, you're ready to install confidently, knowing you can reverse the process easily.

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    Add a Comment (Log in or register) Showing 1 of 2 pages (23 Comments)
    by Rick Auricchio November 9, 2007 8:43 AM PST
    <b>Idiom Police Alert

    "Making a big deal of this in public might be a sleight-of-hand on LaCie's part."

    Sleight of hand implies quick, clever hand movements used to deceive. In this case, it would be better to say that LaCie may be "blowing smoke" in order to deceive or conceal their involvement in the situation.

    Blowing Smoke: To say things that are not true in order to make yourself or something you are involved with seem better than it is.
    Reply to this comment
    by lewnelson November 9, 2007 8:43 AM PST
    <class="merchant"><span>&#62;</span><div class="datestamp"><i>This is a reply to a previous comment by Rick Auricchio</i></div></class><br />
    My experience as a Mac consultant for 11 years has been rather different. I continue to find LaCie drives to work well and last a long time without much attention. I have not felt the same way about SilverLining but I have always recommended other backup software in any case.

    AND, it is my understanding that it was a FORMER LaCie employee who made the statement reported.
    Reply to this comment
    by samarb November 9, 2007 8:53 AM PST
    You mention Time Machine's dock icon, and the ability to summon up a window that lets you run TM manually. I removed the original dock icon, because I was using several bootable back-ups and thought I'd ignore TM.

    Then, when I decided to use TM, I had the System Preference TM window, and it doesn't have provision for manually running TM. And I put the TM application icon on the dock, and it simply brings up the TM window. But still no provision for running TM manually.

    Where do I find the original TM dock icon? I don't want to reinstall Leopard, because everything is running just fine.
    Reply to this comment
    by samarb November 9, 2007 8:53 AM PST
    <class="merchant"><span>&#62;</span><div class="datestamp"><i>This is a reply to a previous comment by samarb</i></div></class><br />
    Press the Control key when clicking on the TM dock icon and you get the Back up Now command.
    Reply to this comment
    by srbharrison November 9, 2007 8:53 AM PST
    <class="merchant"><span>&#62;</span><div class="datestamp"><i>This is a reply to a previous comment by samarb</i></div></class><br />
    Forgot to say, also did new firmware update for FW800 from their website.
    Reply to this comment
    by versiontracker.com35 November 9, 2007 8:53 AM PST
    <class="merchant"><span>&#62;</span><div class="datestamp"><i>This is a reply to a previous comment by samarb</i></div></class><br />
    Under Leopard, you can also click and hold the mouse button down on the Dock icon, to bring the contextual menu up after a second or so. And of course, if you have a two-button mouse, right clicking on the Dock icon will immediately bring up the menu you are looking for...
    Reply to this comment
    by mickdevlin November 9, 2007 8:53 AM PST
    <class="merchant"><span>&#62;</span><div class="datestamp"><i>This is a reply to a previous comment by samarb</i></div></class><br />
    Drag the Time Machine icon from the Applications folder.

    To do a manual backup, right- (or control) click on the TM icon and select Back Up Now from the menu.
    Reply to this comment
    by srbharrison November 9, 2007 8:58 AM PST
    MacMini, USB Seagate 320G, Time Machine perfect first time.

    24' iMac, LaCie Biggest FW800, fw 800, Raid 5 + 1 spare, UPS, (armed guard!!), rename computer, reformat, erase, repartition, Apple hard disk update, still no action. What next
    Reply to this comment
    by alternapop November 9, 2007 10:08 AM PST
    i did a write up regarding how to narrow down Time Machine failures...

    <a href="http://www.alternapop.com/2007/10/30/105-leopard-time-machine-woes-and-how-i-got-around-them/">finding the cause of time machine failures</a>
    Reply to this comment
    by GerryS November 9, 2007 10:25 AM PST
    I would like to also see some of your thoughts about Time Machine and other backup programs like SuperDuper. In my case I have two Macs (iMac G5 2nd gen. and a 17" MacBook Pro-late 2006) and I use SuperDuper to do manual, bootable backups of my main drives. Once I update them to Leopard, how useful is SuperDuper if I use Time Machine? Also, how does Time Machine respond to have a Boot Camp partition on the main dive? Can I use it to back up my XP partition?

    Thanks,

    Gerry
    Reply to this comment
    by Ray Bentsen November 9, 2007 10:25 AM PST
    <class="merchant"><span>&#62;</span><div class="datestamp"><i>This is a reply to a previous comment by GerryS</i></div></class><br />
    A better question, I think, is how useful is Time Machine (and it's hourly backup) if you make regular SuperDuper! backups. My opinion is that for the average at home Mac user hourly backups are more of an annoyance than a "feature". Just my 2¢.
    Reply to this comment
    by eMn November 9, 2007 10:25 AM PST
    <class="merchant"><span>&#62;</span><div class="datestamp"><i>This is a reply to a previous comment by GerryS</i></div></class><br />
    I have no plan to use Time Machine, and I continue to use the (updated to v. 2.1.4) SuperDuper to perform backups when I choose to. After re-partitioning an external drive as GUID, 1 partition, SuperDuper gave me a bootable clone of the internal drive. Tastes great, less filling (or fooling).
    Reply to this comment
    by WhiteDog November 9, 2007 1:46 PM PST
    It is precisely the "average" home user - and small business user - for whom Time Machine will be most useful. These are the folks who don't do backups, the vast majority of users, in fact. On a relatively new Mac the overhead for Time Machine is negligible. Of course you don't need Time Machine - until you do. That's the thing about backups. You never know when you will need one but it's a led pipe cinch that sooner or later you will.

    SuperDuper! and Carbon Copy Cloner (not to mention Retrospect) are different from Time Machine. There is some overlap in function but the differences are significant. While you can restore from a Time Machine backup, it's not nearly as simple and straightforward as booting from a backup made by software that can clone your system. I intend to use both Time Machine - for what it does well - and SuperDuper! - for what it does well.

    One example of the difference between Time Machine and SuperDuper! is that Time Machine backs up everything, even - and especially - the stuff you throw away. SuperDuper!, doing an incremental backup, removes files from the backup that have been removed from the original. There are times when each of these methods is more useful than the other. Hence, in my mind, the need for both.

    But, then, I also do Mac tech support so I am not an "average" user. But I work with average users all the time and getting them to do regular backups is almost impossible. So, once Leopard has been thoroughly debugged, I will be recommending it to my clients. I will then be able to set them up with an external drive, direct Time Machine to use it, and walk away knowing that if something goes wrong I can easily set it right for them.

    On a related note, the screen sharing capability in Leopard will be at least as useful as Time Machine for those of use supporting others' computers, whether family, friends or clients - once Leopard is as ubiquitous as Tiger is today.

    ---
    Don't anthropomorphize computers.
    They hate that.
    Reply to this comment
    by mickdevlin November 9, 2007 1:46 PM PST
    <class="merchant"><span>&#62;</span><div class="datestamp"><i>This is a reply to a previous comment by WhiteDog</i></div></class><br />
    External hard drive need to have the correct partition map scheme, as noted by the Apple article. My drive had MBR when I bought it. I changed this to GUID using Disk Utility. I also repartitioned it as erasing the drive caused the partition scheme to be APM. I changed it to GUID.

    In my experience, the "average user" doesn't know how to do that. Time Machine needs to correctly set the partition scheme for a user's Mac automatically at the first backup. I hope Apple add that functionality soon.
    Reply to this comment
    by MicroMat Tech3 November 9, 2007 1:46 PM PST
    <class="merchant"><span>&#62;</span><div class="datestamp"><i>This is a reply to a previous comment by WhiteDog</i></div></class><br />
    Only 23% of Macintosh users have a backup of anything at all.

    If you do not have both a backup and and off-site backup of your files, you do not own them. You are simply borrowing them from Fate.
    Reply to this comment
    by zcrow November 9, 2007 3:29 PM PST
    I have a LaCie 500 gb drive and was unable to get it to work properly. My symptoms were failed backups, programs wouldn't load while the drive was hooked up, etc. With help from an amazing guy at LaCie (was still helping me at 9pm one night) I now have it working. Here is a quick summary of what I did:

    - turned off spotlight indexing of the Time Machine drive and my Bootcamp volume
    - turn off indexing of my Entourage database folder
    - make sure the hardrive is partitioned with GUID and formatted as journaled extended
    - updated Little Snitch to version 2 (this made a huge difference to overall speed of the computer's operation and startup times)

    Could be that only one of these fixed the issue but I ended up doing them all and it has been running perfectly since. Until then I couldn't even use the drive, while another generic usb drive I had worked flawlessly as is.
    Reply to this comment
    by Mikofox November 9, 2007 3:46 PM PST
    Well, thanks so much for the tip regarding Manual Backups. I am staring at the Time Machine Pref Pane for the last three weeks and scratching my head what in the world Apple thought when they did not add a simple Backup Now button.
    Can't believe they hide this down in the dock.
    Reply to this comment
    by mickdevlin November 9, 2007 9:05 PM PST
    I have an MBP. Prior to installing Leopard, I backed everything up, erased the internal HDD using the write zeroes security option using the Disk Utility on the Leopard install DVD.

    The external drive I use is a 500GB LaCie USB (an in USB-only) drive. I used this to backup my data prior to installing Leopard. The first time I connected it I noticed that the partition scheme was MBR. I used Disk Utility to erase the drive and format it as HFS Extended (Journaled) and noticed that the partiton scheme changed to GUID.

    Using the Partition pane of Disk Utility, I noticed that the partition scheme of the partition was APM (are you confused yet?). I changed this to GUID. The drive has functioned perfectly as both a regular external hard drive and a TM backup drive. I didn't bother installing LaCie's SilverLining tools.

    Conclusion: If you are having problems with your LaCie drive, reformat the drive using Disk Utility.

    I can confirm that TM backups are restricted to manual backups when running off the battery. Once the power adapter is connected, TM reverts to automatic backups.
    Reply to this comment
    by mickdevlin November 9, 2007 9:05 PM PST
    I have an MBP. Prior to installing Leopard, I backed everything up, erased the internal HDD using the write zeroes security option using the Disk Utility on the Leopard install DVD.

    The external drive I use is a 500GB LaCie USB (an in USB-only) drive. I used this to backup my data prior to installing Leopard. The first time I connected it I noticed that the partition scheme was MBR. I used Disk Utility to erase the drive and format it as HFS Extended (Journaled) and noticed that the partiton scheme changed to GUID.

    Using the Partition pane of Disk Utility, I noticed that the partition scheme of the partition was APM (are you confused yet?). I changed this to GUID. The drive has functioned perfectly as both a regular external hard drive and a TM backup drive. I didn't bother installing LaCie's SilverLining tools.

    Conclusion: If you are having problems with your LaCie drive, reformat the drive using Disk Utility.

    I can confirm that TM backups are restricted to manual backups when running off the battery. Once the power adapter is connected, TM reverts to automatic backups.
    Reply to this comment
    by phaseshift November 10, 2007 10:50 AM PST
    I and several others are having an issue with Time Machine requiring target disks to be BIGGER than the source disk. Same size isn't good enough. Even if the data on the source disk consumes less than half the disk. My startup drive is 931.19 GB, and my backup drive is 931.2 GB. My startup drive currently has 478.99 GB of data, and 452.21 GB is available. But even though there is "only" 478.99 GB of data, and even though I've excluded my 10 GB Aperture Data file, Time Machine says the backup requires 1108.9 GB.
    <br><br>There's a <a href="http://discussions.apple.com/thread.jspa?messageID=5775285">short thread about this on Apple Support Discussions</a>. But no one seems to have a solution short of buying a disk that's substantially bigger than the startup disk.
    Reply to this comment
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