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Java 1.3.1 and 1.4.2 Release 2 (#3): System-wide freezes when browsing; Reverting to an earlier Java release; more
System-wide freezes when browsing Users continue to report significant issues with Apple's Java 1.3.1 and 1.4.2 release 2 for Mac OS X 10.4.2. The most pernicious and widespread issue is a stability lapse occurring within Safari and other browsers that leads to a complete system freeze in most cases.
We've received dozens of reports indicating the same behavior -- a stall in Safari when accessing certain Web sites that usually leads to a complete system freeze accompanied by the unending "spinning beach ball" progress indicator.
MacFixIt reader Rob Allen writs:
"We have a 12 inch 1.33 GHz G4 iBook running Mac OS X 10.4.2. We let the software update install the Java 1.3.1 / 1.4.2 release 2 that just came out and now both Safari 2.0.1 and Firefox 1.0.5 break at certain websites. Sometimes this effect is severe, as reported to you by Michael Robertson yesterday, causing not only the browser to go non-functional, but the finder to crash as well, necessitating a power button shutdown as he described. "
Eric Straubmuller adds: "I too have been having the problems since the download of the Java update. The browser freezes while surfing the web for awhile, then it crashes the Finder completely. It's been happening to me all day and driving me nuts." I use a 17" iMac G4 800mHz 1GB RAM, and a MacMini 1.42GHz 512 MB RAM, and it happens on both machines running 10.4.2. Hopefully this will be resolved soon!"
jim Ostlund corroborates:
"Since updating to the new Java update (Java 1.3.1 and 1.4.2 Release 2), Safari will occasionally hang and it also hangs OS X. The only way to recover is to reboot. I have cleaned all the Java caches using the Java utilities. Have not done anything with the 'plist' area yet. "
Finally, Marc Giller identifies a specific site that generates the problem on his system:
"I discovered I had the same freezing problems when using Firefox--so this appears to be a cross-browser problem related to the Java update. Specifically, it seems to happen only on certain web pages. In my case, the Fox News website caused Safari and Firefox to freeze out my entire system, forcing a hard shut down by holding down the power button."
Reverting to an earlier Java release Like a number of other key Mac OS X components, an easy method for downgrading to a previous release is elusive for Java 1.3.1 and 1.4.2 Release 2. The best bet for a comprehensive uninstallation that eliminates all remnants of the release is to perform an Archive and Install procedure than apply appropriate Mac OS X and security updates, but refrain from re-installing the Java update via these steps:
- Make a full backup of your current Mac OS X installation
- Perform an Archive and Install, via the following steps: insert your Mac OS X CD or DVD.. Restart your machine and hold down the "C" key to boot from the newly inserted disc. Follow the on-screen instructions, and after accepting the license agreement, click "Options." Select "Archive and Install," and check the "Preserve User and Network Settings" option.
- Bring your installation back up to the point of revision right before you started having problems. This means applying the Mac OS X 10.4.2 Combo Updater (available through Software Update) and any Security Updates released since the pressing of your Mac OS X retail disc.
For more details see our tutorial on reverting to an earlier version of Mac OS X.
Device interface issues Meanwhile, users continue to report issues with the Java-based interfaces for routers and some other devices -- yesterday we noted problems with the Cisco PIX Device Manager 3.0, now one reader reports problems with an HP ethernet switch:
"The update appears to have broken the Java-based interface to the HP ProCurve 2524 10/100 ethernet switch. So far either the page will not load past steaming coffee cups, or else Safari crashes. I used the interface for some network troubleshooting earlier this week, and this is the only change to the system since then, so I have a high degree of confidence that this is the cause. More details as I have them."
Feedback? Late-breakers@macfixit.com.
Previous coverage
- Java 1.3.1 and 1.4.2 Release 2 (#2): Web browser, system stability issues; Cisco PIX interface broken; more
- Apple releases Java 1.3.1 and 1.4.2 Release 2 for Mac OS X 10.4.x (Tiger)
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What a sour tune you sing Melodyman. It's not due to the fact that my system
is not maintained. I have not had a lock up or freeze that I can remember in 3
years till this happened. I keep up with all the maintenance, tried it all again
when this happened. No third party hacks or stuff. I know better, I fix Macs
for a living. I don't even do the Apple updates for a month or two to see how
it goes.
AppleJack is nothing special, I have it installed but don't use it, it's just a front
end in single user mode for the built in maintenance of X, all of which I do
without AppleJack.
Due to differences in hardware, problems will show up on some machines
and not others.
update but have the exact same problem.
It's not the Java update.
Unplugging the Ethernet cable brings things back to life and I get a dialog box
stating lookupd has unexpectedly quit.
10.4.2, the only other two updates I've done since June are the June Security
update and QuickTime 7.0.1
Unfortunately for me, I use wireless so there's no cable to unplug. What I do
instead is press the power button to put the machine to sleep and then wake it
back up. This fixes lookupd (if that's the problem, and I believe it is) and things
get back to normal.
Try turning the router or Airport base off and then back on.
From an Apple Discussions thread, thanks to Trond Simensen...
In the Terminal (/Applications/Utilities/Terminal), do this:
sudo mkdir /etc/lookupd
sudo sh -c "echo TimeToLive 300 > /etc/lookupd/hosts"
sudo sh -c "echo ValidateCache NO >> /etc/lookupd/hosts"
This modifies how lookupd works such that it works around the problem.
Restart, sleep, unplug your network cable briefly, or turn AirPort off then on. This will restart the lookupd service with the changes above.
I did it and no more crashes so far...
This web site has a good analysis of what is happening, along with an additional workaround: a little program that periodically checks for lookupd, and restarts if if needed:
http://www.dshadow.com/software/unlockupd/
You're a life-saver! So far, the 3 Terminal commands appear to have fixed the problem. I was crashing consistently at FoxNews.com. Since, I've surfed around the site twice, each time for about 5 minutes, without incident. I posted your instructions in the Apple Discussions Forum, this should help out a lot of folks. Thanks!
I agree it's not the Java update. I was having the problem before the update
on two machines. It became more frequent after the update on one of the
machines. Disconnecting the eithernet cable worked. lookupd died and was
restarted automatically and all was well. I put some entries into the netiinfo
db to turn on lookupd logging at level 6. The problem, which had been
occurring frequently has not recurred since. If it does maybe the log will show
something. If the log doesn't show anything I'll log at level 7 which is very
verbose. I'm guessing the hang is occuring before lookupd has a chance to
log anything. By the way. Someone responding to the earlier article on this
top describe the symptoms I'm getting perfectly - Safari doesn't finish
loading, Finder becomes unresponsive, new application launches bounce the
icon for a little while - then stop, dock becomes unresponsive.
I also do not think it is wholly the fault of the Java update, as I have observed the described behavior on my TiBook 1g G4 prior to the update (while visiting foxnews.com). The issue arose fairly infrequently but has become more pronounced and frequent since the update.
In my case it appears that Fox News.com is the culprit. Every single time I have the site open on either Camino or Opera within 10-15 minutes my whole system freezes up and I must shutdown and restart.
Last night I stayed away from FN completely (not a bad thing really) and voila! no freeze ups at all. At the same time I visited many other sites with and without Java items with no problem.
I did all the things mentioned by the people here; flush cache, yasu, preferential treatment, repair keychain and permissions,etc. Even after all this I had still had the problems with that one particular website.
It appears that something there (FN), at least in combination with my PB & the update causes these problems. I believe others had mentioned problems with FN as well. I really don't know what the final fix will be but for now I will avoid FN.
I hope this adds to the discussion in pursuit of a solution and thank all the other posters for their information.
Will
Changing the lookupd settings in the hosts file (as mentioned in a previous post
) seemed to fix the problem for me.
I am having the same type of crashes. Safari seems to hang on a loadquitting
applications hang, launching applications bounce in the dock, the finder
freezes, no elegant way out.
Since I have NOT updated to Java 1.3.1 and 1.4.2 Release 2 then that is
definitely not the culprit.
I only performed the java update yesterday. Was having the problem before the
update.
than before the update. I have experienced a few problems with Safari,
however, the problems were 3rd party generated. In my system, Safari in
Tiger runs faster than Panther's version.
To speed up Safari: One suggestion for broadband/dsl users is to deactivate
Safari's Cache using 3rd party Safari Enhancer. Also, uncheck "other forms" in
the Preference/Auto fill pane. If you want to use "other forms", click "edit" on
the preference panel and remove those that no longer apply. Otherwise,
accessing a very long list can make Safari slow down.
As the previous poster suggested, maintenance is the key to a smooth
running OS. Following a monthly maintenance or a major Update
maintenance plan, using Onyx, Cocktail or AppleJack in concert with Disk
Warrior and/or TechTool Pro, can go a long way toward creating system
stability.
to repair permissions before I update, and immediately after applying the
update. I empty the cache several times a day. Doing these routines I believe has
helped keep Safari active and problem-free for me. I hope that this helps.
Dual G5-2.0
6mb Ram
Here's what I did that seems to have fixed my problem...which was happening with Safari, Firefox 1.5, and a G5-compiled version of Firefox 1.5:
create a new directory under /etc named lookupd
in /etc/lookupd, create a file called hosts
These 2 lines should be in /etc/lookupd/hosts
TimeToLive 300
ValidateCache NO
then reboot...
I've now surfed across Fox News (not what I like to do but anything the cause of fixing Macs) without a problem.
My system: Dual G5 2.3GHz Powermac, Tiger 10.4.2, 4GB RAM
To add to this: I ran 'Fix Permissions' immediately after the update, and got
*lots* of fixes in the Safari folders, even though I had run it just before the
update as well.
I have had no problems.
release. I maintain my system rigorously as promoted here at MacFixit and
elsewhere. I've never experienced a failure after an Apple upgrade that was
not ultimately traceable to a 3rd-party item, with the exception of the
temporary loss of Mathematica functionality.
My freezes are 100% traceable to network issues, although exactly what those
issues are I will have to leave to those more informed than I. All I have to do
to un"freeze" is power-cycle my Belkin router. If the freezes continue, I clear
all Safari-related caches. foxnews.com is the only site that I visit that still
shows an occasional slow-down, but stopping the page loading and doing it
again always gets it.
We have to be careful when attributing fault. The fact that I install product X
and then have problems does not mean that product X is at fault even if when
I remove product X, the problem disappears!! All one can say without delving
into the implementation of product X and the implementation of all modules
with which product X interacts is that the installation of product X makes a
problem manifest. The actual error may well reside elsewhere, perhaps in
more than one place.
system archive and install is recommended as a method of downgrading after
a problematic system update, highlights one of the few areas where MS
Windows is superior to the Mac OS: it has a software removal function built
in. While you can use a third party utility to achieve similar results in OS X,
the fact the function is not an integral part of the operating system is an
ongoing source of difficulty for Mac users.
An increasing number of programs, including Microsoft Office, now come
with uninstallers of one kind or another. The standard OS X installer,
however, has no such capability. There may be some good reasons why this is
so but one is tempted to ask, if Windows can do it, why can't OS X?
---
Don't anthropomorphize computers.
They hate that.
- by slurslee September 16, 2005 3:46 PM PDT
>This is a reply to a previous comment by WhiteDog
- Like this Reply to this comment
-
Showing 1 of 2 pages (24 Comments)Well, as far as I know not even Windows XP has the ability to revert to any
arbitrary earlier version of installed software -- certainly not system
components like the JVM. That would require first having a standardized
installation system which automatically archived all replaced components.
Something like that is certainly possible, but would take up lots of disk space
after a time. Overall, Windows uninstall has always been somewhat broken,
because it may remove shared components like DLLs that other programs
need. And if you opt not to remove shared components, you may end up with
lots of dross in your Windows/System folder that nothing is using.
In my own experience the Mac OS X Archive / Install is the most painless
process possible. You get a nice clean system and you can restore any
custom components you need just by dragging them from the Previous
Systems folder to your fresh system. (Color labels definitely help here!) It's
certainly far less mysterious on the Mac, where everything is visible right in
the file system and there is no hierarchal central registry that ordinary
applications rely on. (I don't know if it's is still true of Windows that you pretty
much need to re-install all your apps after a system restore, but because of
their reliance on the Registry it used to be so.)
I think you've got an important point though, and I have no doubt that future
versions of both Mac OS X and Windows will both address this issue. After all,
storage keeps getting cheaper, and there's a nearly infinite amount of future
time to address these things!