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Confirmation of AirPort Extreme failure on certain sites
Originally posted September 14th, 2004
Yesterday we reported a problem where certain websites cause AirPort Extreme base stations to fail completely, i.e. no machines using the base station are able to access network services. We are seeking additional confirmation for the issue.
We've since received several notes confirming this issue, as well as some additional details on what might be causing the problem.
MacFixIt reader Tom writes:
"Not only does Safari kill the Airport Extreme Base Station when attempting to load certain web sites, it kills my Macsense wired router when I am not using wireless at all. If you look at the Activity (under the Window menu in Safari), this occurs when the JavaScript tries to load a ShockWave item that cannot be found. After about a minute, the router will come back. I expect the bug is the same as for the Airport Station getting a WAN IP from the DHCP server. I have experienced this particularly on eBay auction pages that call files on various servers--the router loses its WAN IP address and requires 60-90 seconds to get another."
It should be noted that a number of other readers cite some eBay pages as triggering this issue.
Reader Dennis Murphy adds:
"I've confirmed that the web page listed here: http://homepage.mac.com/brossow/macfixit/safari_aebs_crash_page.htm stops any outbound traffic through my Airport Extreme Base Station.
"I've used Safari to access that page from my Power Mac G5 (first gen, 2x2.0) as well as my 15" Aluminum Powerbook, and both times, I had to reset the AEBS.
"It seems to me that the AEBS resets itself (it disappears from the Airport Admin Utility), but once it came back, I had to login and do a 'Reset' from the 'Base Station' menu to get any outbound traffic to work.
Mark Issacs-Ward corroborates:
"I've had an Airport Extreme network for over a year now. The same symptoms described happen to me, too. And it happens on various sites! The one thing they all seem to have in common is a java implementation. I too have several Macs and one WinTel machine on the network. All computers are connected via 54 megabyte/sec cards to an Airport Extreme Base. When the problem occurs, only a full shutdown and restart of the Base Station will get it back online again. Even machines that are plugged into my ethernet hub via hardwired connection (and are pulling IP addresses from the DHCP Server in the Airport) are affected.
"When I access certain web sites, the Airport Extreme just locks up. It takes a reboot to get it going again. I've applied every patch Apple has released (both to the Operating System Software and those that are Airport specific) and the same thing continues. I cannot believe that Apple is unaware of the problem. I've written them several times about the issue over the past year. And yet to receive anything other than an automated response... typical of Apple these days."
Problems also reported with AirPort Express Though we've yet to experience such a phenomenon with our in-house AirPort Express, a handful of readers report network connectivity drops similar to the aforementioned with the device.
One reader writes "I do have similar, intermittent 'crashes' where one or more computers lose access to the AirPort Express entirely. I too am using it in DHCP/NAT mode connected to a 3mbps cable modem. When it happens the computer that gets dropped has its signal strength meter go to zero and it can no longer see the base station with airport admin utility. Sometimes the other computers will continue to network just fine, but once one is dropped, it cannot get back on without restarting the base station. Most often though it drops them all at once. I have a network throughput app running on the G5 and I notice that while downloading I can have a steady rate for hours and then all of a sudden the throughput drops very low for a few seconds and then stops completely. The latter coinciding with the disappearance of signal strength."
What is causing the problem MacFixIt reader Darrell Kienzle may have found the root cause of this issue, opening the door for some workarounds:
"I ran tcpdump while loading the site that causes the crash, and it looks like Internet Explorer only makes a single DNS query for the site against the AirPort Extreme Base Station. But Safari hammers the AirPort Extreme Base Station with one DNS lookup for every single little linked element on the page. So the AirPort Extreme Base Station is getting a huge number of DNS requests before even the first response gets back to it from its upstream DNS server. And I think it's just killing the DNS service on the AirPort Extreme Base Station."
So one workaround, based on Kienzle's findings, might be to set up a separate DNS service that alleviates the AirPort Extreme of that duty.
We're conducting further testing and will pass along any new details that emerge.
Resources
As it turns out, my broadband cable company had somehow leased the same
DHCP address to both my cable modem and another modem. My AEBS would
work fine most of the time, but every couple of days, there would be a
collision and it would die. Only power cycle would fix it. It took me about
three hours of tech support phone time to resolve the problem.
JPGETTY,
Who was your broadband cable company?
Champion (formerly Altrio).
ethernet Airport Base Station. the symptoms are very similar.
When I called Apple Tech support, they diagnosed the problem as being the
power cord/adapter and I am waiting on it's delivery.
Rick in Maine
Airport base station. It appears with RealPlayer windows and to a lesser
degree with pages that rely heavily on Java elements. The Airport network
stops, then fails but can be restored after 2-3 minutes by switching to
another network, then back to the original. All this began in my case after
installing 10.3.5. It is annoying, especially since I'm trying to track hurricane
Ivan and NOAA pages and maps are all heavy into Java elements.
where before it was crashing the Airport.
Colman
There is one "known" problem with the AEBS that I am aware of -- if you are
using NTP, after about 36 hours the AEBS fails to connect to the Internet. If
you have a local Ethernete Network, you can still reach those systems (I have
them configured in my wireless machine's /etc/hosts) with no problem and
those machines (not getting NAT addresses from the AEBS) can still connect
to the Internet ... but you can't connect through the AEBS from any NAT based
device.
I've been working this for over a month now with Apple Support and we have
basically confirmed that disabling NTP is a workaroud for this particular
problem.
I have no idea if anything in today's Airport update will have (or is intended to
have) any effect on this problem.
---
William H. Magill
NTP on the AEBS or on the computers in the LAN?
I've been using Macs since the Toaster days, and currently have an AirPort
Extreme, originally used with an iBook, later a PowerBook. And yes, from time
to time it has gone down (although not nearly as many
times as Safari has crashed.)
As one who is not especially technically inclined and yet relies on his
technology, my broad statement is that whatever the problem is with an
Apple product, whether with your machine or your AirPort, restarting it, or
unplugging it for a few seconds in the case of AirPort then plugging it back
in, will get things running again no less than 95% of the time. (If the first run
doesn't do it, the second will 99% of the time.)
I'm not in a position to speculate as to the root cause of these failures, only
how to get things working again. I have AppleCare on all my gear, and yet
have only had to call for advice one time, and about an issue whose cure was
staring me in the face the whole time.
Finding the root cause of an issue is satisfying, I'm sure. But I think there is
some advantage to taking a utilitarian view -- whatever works is good
enough.
Roy
That's a fine approach if you don't mind having to take unnecessary steps to
fix a problem that shouldn't occur in the first place. It's also a completely
unrealistic solution for people who have their base stations mounted
somewhere relatively inaccessible, such as high on a wall or even above a
suspended ceiling; I have both situations in various locations where I
administer networks with AirPort base stations. It's easy to pull a power cord
if it's next to you on a desk; it's not as simple if it's mounted permanently ten
feet over your head with power coming from an inaccessible outlet.
Just an observation, not a negative criticism. :-)
http://homepage.mac.com/brossow/macfixit/safari_aebs_crash_page.html
not
http://homepage.mac.com/brossow/macfixit/safari_aebs_crash_page.htm
The page is chocked full of errors but displayed fine on my computer using
an airport card and linksys router. While I have not taken time to capture all
the packets me thinks it has to do with the way Safari handles the errors and
the packets generated by these errors which trips up the Apple base stations,
which may be stating the obvious. Since not all routers are affected by the
errors the chipset used by the router is the obvious place to look.
Instead of setting up a DNS server on your own computer setting the DNS
address to your ISP's DNS server might stop the crashes.
---
-d
It's been submitted along with links back to these reports.
symptoms. During the past week I've had numerous dropped wireless
connection since the last security update. Prior to that point I always had
reliable and solid wireless TCP/IP connection. The interesting thing is I'm
using a Netgear WCR614 v3 wireless router, not an ABS. Drops happen when
accessing certain sites when using wireless. This causes both wired and
wireless connected machines to drop, necessitating reboot of the router.
Contrary to other postings this does not appears to happen when accessing
these sites via the wired machine, only via wireless, although this still needs
time to verify. These connection drops are apparently a result of the recent
update. Hopefully some bright guru will figure out what's causing it and
either get Apple to fix it in the next update or suggest a workaround.
consistently
fail.<br><br>However, my equipment is different than that mentioned
previously; I am using two different white iBooks via wireless (802.11b, only,
no g) to a MacSense wireless router. So this does not appear limited
particularly to either AirPort Extreme or even an Apple Base
Station.<br><br>This issue began some months ago, but I'm not quite sure
when exactly; both Safari and IE appear to cause the issue. I am using the
latest verion of Safari on the latest OS X, and the most current version of IE.
ago, on two different G4 Powerbooks.
After troubleshooting my butt off (and I am experienced at this!) - up to and
including powercycling Comcast cable modem and a system archive & install
- I found a fix which has held steady ever since, only sorry I can't credit the
source:
Set the AEBS to request a new DHCP lease more frequently than the default 4
hours. (Look under Network in Airport Admin Utility.) Set at 60 minutes, as
was advised, and had nary a signal waver.
But think I'll pass on this update! The Airport Express is hell to hard-reset.
What genius designed that non-button.
- by chsnyder November 10, 2005 4:37 PM PST
- Has this issue really gone unresolved for over a year? I'm having the same kinds of problems described here. I'll look up from a spinning wheel in Firefox to see no signal and, about 50% of the time, no Airport Express listed in the SSID menu. Only a hard reset (unplug) will reset the little fracker.
- Like this Reply to this comment
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(18 Comments)Guess I'll fiddle with the DNS settings...