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December 17, 2004 3:24 AM PST

Mac OS X 10.3.7 (#3): Firewire warning; fixes; problem reports; more

by CNET staff

We continue our coverage of the recent Mac OS X 10.3.7 Update. As with most updates, many people have installed it without incident. However, we have received reports of problems, some of them confirmed by multiple people independently. (How was your update? Please let us know by taking the poll to the right.)

FireWire warning includes iPods We previously noted that Apple's release notes for the 10.3.7 Update indicate that users should disconnect all FireWire drives from the computer being updated prior to installing the update. This includes iPods, as the iPod is indeed a FireWire hard drive. Reader Bill Kempthorne discovered the possible consequences of not heeding Apple's advice:

"I saw the note about 'third-party' firewire drives [but] it didn't really register that my [40GB 3G] iPod would be one of them...[After installing the update] I went to grab my iPod and found a CD with a checkmark on the screen. Upon restarting the iPod had no music. I plugged it back into my G5 and iTunes complained that it was unreadable. While the iPod mounted all the other data on the drive was also gone. I have run the restore from the iPod updater and I am now re-syncing my iPod."

Notable fixes We should note that Apple claims OS X 10.3.7 fixes two significant issues we've been covering on MacFixIt over the past few weeks (since the release of OS X 10.3.6): (1) a problem where long filenames are truncated when saving or copying files over File Sharing; and (2) an issue where Safari and other Internet clients would experience intermittent connectivity due to a DNS problem (the infamous Safari "connect on the second try" bug). You can see a list of all the fixes included in 10.3.7 here.

Update updates moved Apple apps Apple's OS X updates continue to flip-flop in their ability to update Apple applications that have been moved by the user from their original locations -- sometimes they do, but sometimes they don't. Readers noted that the 10.3.6 update did not, but C.S. Hander observes that the 10.3.7 update does:

"I wanted to pass on to you this interesting note -- I used the 10.3.7 Combo updater on my system and it actually went and updated the programs that had been moved from their default locations into subfolders. 10.3.6 did not do this -- I had to move them back into place."

Because Apple's updaters are so inconsistent, we recommend keeping all Apple applications in their original locations.

Problem reports We've received confirmations of a number of problems we previously covered, along with some first-time reports. We want to remind users that before they send us a report of a problem with the update, they should boot from the OS X Install disc and run Disk Utility's Disk First Aid and Repair Disk Permissions functions to ensure that the problem isn't being caused by a disk/directory/permissions issue.

    Slow startups network related? Yesterday we covered a number of reports of slow startup after installing the update. Although some users are indeed experiencing such an issue, all users should be aware that the first startup after installing a major system update will likely take significantly longer than normal, as Mac OS X is loading all kernel extensions (kexts) rather than using the existing (and now obsolete) kext cache. If your first startup after installing an update seems abnormally long, restart your computer once or twice more -- you may find that subsequent restarts are much faster.

    Unfortunately, a number of users are experiencing extremely slow startup times no matter how many times they restart their Macs. However, looking at these reports as a whole, it appears that in some cases these slow startup times may be related to network activity. For example, reader Michael Louey reports that turning his AirPort card off prior to shutdown/restart allows his Mac to start up normally. And Ken Marks notes that disabling his network connections in the Network Port Configurations screen of Network preferences eliminated all startup delays.

    Similarly, Phillip Wong notes a DNS-related solution for slow login:

    "I was getting the incomplete menu bar on login... [after] waiting a bit it was fully populating. It turns out that I had a DNS server specified, but the network wasn't connected to the outside. I've removed all DNS entries for that location and let the PPP take care of getting me a DNS server. Now, everything is normal and quite fast."

    Slow startup RAM related? Reader Joe Redifer has also experienced slow startup -- since OS X 10.3.6 -- but notes that removing RAM solved the problem:

    "I was having problems with a brand new Dual 2.5Ghz G5 with 8GB of RAM [running OS X 10.3.6] at work yesterday... This machine waited after the login screen for several minutes before granting access to the Desktop. But the computer also had lots of other problems as well like constant kernel panics. I figured that the hardware must be an issue since the kernel panics kept happening, so I removed a stick of RAM, leaving the machine with only 6 gigs. I turned it back on and it booted up fast. The machine now worked perfectly as well...Try removing a stick of RAM from a machine that boots slow just to see what it does."

    Slow application launch times also network related? Yesterday we also noted problems with slow application launch times. Reader Ulf Cronenberg reports that he only experiences this issue when online:

    "I read your comments about the problems with Mac OS X 10.3.7 regarding large opening times (Mail, OmniWeb, iChat) and tried your potential workarounds, but the problem is still there. I am not able to fix the problem. It has something to do with the network settings, because when I am offline all apps open within a few seconds."

    Slow Internet speeds We've also received a few reports of slow performance with Internet clients (Web browsers, email clients, etc.); reader Ray Landsiedel notes that he fixed this issue by manually entering DNS server addresses (a fix that also worked for many readers experiencing the Safari "multiple-try" bug we covered a few weeks ago):

    "I installed 10.3.7 on three different computers...all of them ran slow. What caught my eye was how slow Web pages loaded after upgrading. It was taking 2 to 3 minutes when it took a few seconds on 10.3.6. My mail program would not respond...I remembered a problem with a previous OS: The DHCP would not get stored correctly, [but] if you put in valid DNS numbers in the Network [preferences], Safari would work just fine. I put in the DNS numbers in all three computers and everything including Mail works just fine."

    FireWire drive issues Although the release notes for the 10.3.7 Update mention fixes for FireWire drive mounting issues, some readers haven't had much luck with this "improvement." Rafael Gutierrez writes:

    "Under 10.3.6, my external Fantom 60GB firewire drive would mount only intermittently, although I experienced no data loss. Since, according to Apple, 10.3.7 addressed this issue, I took the plunge and updated to 10.3.7. I was careful to follow Apple's recommendation to turn off and unplug the drive (although I forgot to repair permissions). The drive did mount upon restart. I then unmounted it and tried to remount it again (both after restart and shutdown) about 4 times. So far, I haven't been able to get the drive to mount again."

    And Bud Jenschke suggests that the update doesn't restore functionality to non-Oxford FireWire drives, which stopped working for him under 10.3.6. (Interestingly, like Rafael Gutierrez's drive, Bud's drive mounted initially, but thereafter would not mount.):

    "I have four Western Digital hard drives (250, 200, 160 and 80GB) for my 2001 [Power Mac G4] Quicksilver. Two drives are mounted internally via an ACARD 6280M PCI card and two are mounted via external firewire cases. I have been very happy with the reliability and performance of these drives. I was hoping OS 10.3.7 would solve the issue of a three-year old external FireWire drive not mounting under OS 10.3.6. (As you know, this issue was reported frequently in OS 10.3.6. I had no problems with this drive in any earlier OS versions.) The other external firewire drive, with an Oxford 911 bridge, has not had any problems. My problem drive does not have an Oxford 911 chipset. Following the OS 10.3.7 update, shutdown, startup and permissions repair, the problem drive appeared on the desktop and functioned normally. I typically shutdown my Quicksilver at night and upon startup this morning, the drive would not mount. Several shutdowns and startups have not changed the symptoms. Disk Utility sees it and the partitions on the drive, but they are all grayed out and Disk Utility cannot operate on them. DiskWarrior reports the partitions as 'Unknown Disk' for each partition. (I traded several emails about this with tech support at Alsoft after the OS 10.3.6 update and they have been very responsive, but it really isn't a DiskWarrior issue. Nevertheless, many thanks and praises to them!)

    "Before the OS 10.3.7 update, I put the drive from the problem case into the Oxford 911 firewire case and it appeared on the desktop and functioned normally under OS 10.3.6. For this reason, I'm fairly confident it's not a hard drive problem but a bridge/OSX problem...It's a shame I'm out some money because of a Mac OS X update."

    Preview not displaying fonts Gerald Van Kollenburg reports an issue where Preview -- which was updated by 10.3.7 -- no longer displays fonts in some PDF files:

    "After updating to 10.3.7, the fonts in some of my PDF files do not display in Preview and, when attached to an email in Mail, do not display in the email. The graphics are there, but not the fonts. The fonts are embedded in the PDF so there should not be an issue. One file in particular uses two different trutype fonts if that matters. However, they look fine in Acrobat Professional and in Acrobat Reader, so I believe it is a problem with the new update."

    PCI Extreme broken? Reader Corey Dickey notes that after installing the OS X 10.3.7 Update, PCI Extreme -- a hack that allows older, unsupported, Macs and graphics cards to support the Quartz Extreme graphics technology -- no longer works: "My display is no longer accelerated and reinstalling PCI Extreme doesn't fix it." Unfortunately, this is an unsupported hack, and it hasn't been updated in a couple years, so we don't expect an update.

Send us your experiences with and comments on the update at Late-breakers@macfixit.com.

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    Add a Comment (Log in or register) (16 Comments)
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    by fisherr_dotmac December 17, 2004 7:23 AM PST
    I installed 10.3.7 with all my drives attached before I read about
    disconnecting
    them. The only problem I am having is that my email is very slow to load. I
    have mostly Lacie drives and one QPS drive. They all mounted ok and I
    installed 10.3.7 on all of them with no problem.
    Reply to this comment
    by johnlove December 17, 2004 7:27 AM PST
    Reference Firewire warnings. I have an iMac G4 with OSX 3.7 and an external
    LaCie D2 80 gb drive.

    I've always had trouble cold booting from this drive, successful only about
    50-60% of the time. However, even when the cold boot sequence failed to
    find the external drive, the internal drive was booted from. After booting from
    the internal drive as described above, the external drive always showed on
    the desktop.

    After combo-updating to 3.7 (withOUT) disconnecting the LaCie drive, the
    updater restarted the iMac as it should, but the dreaded Kernal Panic (slashed
    circle) appeared upon restart. Turned off the iMac and restarted, but this
    time pressed the Option key. Only the internal drive showed, so continued to
    boot from the internal drive AND the external drive showed on the desktop.

    Used TechTool Pro and DiskWarrior on the exernal drive (both partitions) and
    the Kernel Panic problem seems to have disappeared. Have not tested it
    enough about not seeing the external drive if it is selected to startup the
    iMac.

    I am convinced that the 4800 rpm spec on the LaCie drive is the culprit,
    versus the 7200 rpm on the current vintage of LaCie drives. My drive is still
    under warranty and so talked with LaCie about this non-recognition on
    startup and they replied that they use IBM startup mechanisms and consider
    themselves not responsible.

    John Love
     

    ---
    Touch the Future ... Teach!
    Reply to this comment
    by vgartdept December 17, 2004 7:27 AM PST
    <class="merchant"><span>&#62;</span><div class="datestamp"><i>This is a reply to a previous comment by johnlove</i></div></class><br />
    The "preview not displaying PDF fonts" is not a 10.3.7 issue. Some of the users in my department have been experiencing this problem since 10.3.5. It first appeared after updating from Microsoft Office X to Office 2004. I believe it is a font issue.
    Reply to this comment
    by designr graphics December 17, 2004 7:27 AM PST
    <class="merchant"><span>&#62;&#62;</span><div class="datestamp"><i>This is a reply to a previous comment by vgartdept</i></div></class><br />
    Office 2004 installs a bunch of fonts in "~/Library/Fonts/". One of these may
    be causing a conflict. Bear in mind that loading two fonts of the same name
    causes problems. If you remove these fonts, Office 2004 reinstalls them the
    next time you launch an Office 2004 app. The source of these fonts is "/
    Applications/Microsoft Office 2004/Office/Fonts/". Try removing the fonts
    from both places and see if Office blows up... Then let us know :=)
    Reply to this comment
    by John Sawyer December 17, 2004 7:27 AM PST
    <class="merchant"><span>&#62;</span><div class="datestamp"><i>This is a reply to a previous comment by johnlove</i></div></class><br />
    I doubt if the La Cie Firewire drive's speed is 4800 RPM, especially their D2 line--4800 RPM desktop-style hard drives are pretty uncommon these days. Today's hard drive rotational speeds are usually 7200 RPM. Though you can still buy 5400 RPM drives, they're becoming less common. Even if your drive were as slow as 4800 RPM, that wouldn't be what's preventing it from starting up your Mac consistently--something else is going on. Many other people using Firewire drives see trouble starting up from them, and they're using drives that are at least 5400 RPM, but usually 7200 RPM.
    Reply to this comment
    by veggiedude--2008 December 17, 2004 11:31 AM PST
    I ignored the warning on one of my external La Cie drives. Why? Because that is where my bootup system is! But to take a precaution, the other La Cie drive was disconnected.

    On bootup, the system froze at "Loading Apache" which is a mystery since I have web services off. I had to do a hard reboot and the machine started up normally.

    There is one strange glitch I encountered but I don't know if it has anything to do with the upgrade or if it was coincidence. In Final Cut Pro, the audio on a 3 minute video I was working on became extremely out of sync, and I had to spend two hours to fix it.
    Reply to this comment
    by Guitarman December 17, 2004 11:31 AM PST
    <class="merchant"><span>&#62;</span><div class="datestamp"><i>This is a reply to a previous comment by veggiedude--2008</i></div></class><br />
    I, too, have my OS X installation on an external firewire partition. I went ahead and installed the combo updater and so far everything seems ok. No problems. I did repair permissions before and after the update.

    Brent
    Reply to this comment
    by Palmtop-Pro Magazine December 18, 2004 1:39 AM PST
    Updating to Mac OS X 10.3.7 means the desktop never shows if a network
    (e.g. ADSL, PPP) in configured in the network preferences but no physical
    connection esablished. A big drawback from the former version where it did
    not matter a connection was established or not. When starting up and
    subsequently disabling all network properties the mac starts somehow
    normal. When Ethernet, VPN is specified the side bar comes up but the ball of
    death never ends spinning and the disks / desktop never show up - unless I
    connect to the server / internet via the taskbar. Then the desktop and the
    disks sow up in a second.
    Reply to this comment
    by John Sawyer December 18, 2004 1:39 AM PST
    <class="merchant"><span>&#62;</span><div class="datestamp"><i>This is a reply to a previous comment by Palmtop-Pro Magazine</i></div></class><br />
    You say "A big drawback from the former version where it did not matter [if] a connection was established or not." What you're seeing isn't a drawback, it's a bug in your installation of OS X, apparently caused when you did the update to 10.3.7. Apple wouldn't "update" OS X so it wouldn't display the desktop if you didn't have a network connection. You might try doing all the usual troubleshooting described here: permissions repair, delete caches (use Panther Cache Cleaner's "Deep Cleaning" option), etc., then reinstalling the 10.3.7 update, using the Combined updater.
    Reply to this comment
    by Palmtop-Pro Magazine December 18, 2004 1:39 AM PST
    <class="merchant"><span>&#62;&#62;</span><div class="datestamp"><i>This is a reply to a previous comment by John Sawyer</i></div></class><br />
    I have followed your recommendations - the desktop shows after a dragging
    3 minutes or so.
    In the meantime the Mac obviously searches for a internet connection
    configured and shows the desktop after having given up finding one.
    I updated a 400 Mhz Power PC G3 powerbook with 576 MB SDRAM

    ---
    Boris Michael von Luhovoy
    publishing editor
    Palmtop-Pro Magazin
    www.palmtop-pro.com
    ---
    I'ts like a backstage ticket to the future
    Reply to this comment
    by mjgp2 December 19, 2004 5:01 PM PST
    The update has totally disabled ALS in my powerbook - that is, the powerbook always thinks it's bright even if you're in a pitch black room - which means no illuminated keyboard, or auto brightness adjust for the screen. There doesn't seem to be any information on getting ALS readings through a terminal anywhere, or even what processes/daemons run relating to it. Any help would be appreciated.
    Reply to this comment
    by SleeplessLord December 19, 2004 6:28 PM PST
    I installed the 10.3.7 update through update installer and had no problem...for a few hours. When I started my 14" iBook (April 2004 release) the next morning it froze and keeps doing so all the time. Moreover, I don't know why but "About this Mac" keeps showing half of the additional 256 MB RAM installed - the total of 384MB instead of 512MB. The Repair Permissions does NOT help at all. Would appreciate your comments.
    Reply to this comment
    by John Sawyer December 19, 2004 6:28 PM PST
    <class="merchant"><span>&#62;</span><div class="datestamp"><i>This is a reply to a previous comment by SleeplessLord</i></div></class><br />
    Apple often "tightens up" the RAM speed requirements for OS X in its various updates, which sometimes makes some RAM boards that were working fine before, but which don't possess what Apple considers "fast enough" specs, fail to work properly after an update. Most of the time, Apple is just trying to squeeze the last little bit of speed out of the RAM and OS X, to no good purpose, since the speedup is so minimal nobody would notice it. Often, when you encounter this problem, the fix is to just rearrange your RAM boards, so that none of the RAM boards are in the same slots as they were before the update. Give it a try! However, if your Mac has just one easily accessible RAM slot, like the flat panel G4 iMacs, you can't try this trick. So, try a couple other tricks: press the logic board's reset button; if that doesn't help, remove the aftermarket RAM board, leaving the original Apple RAM in place, power up the Mac, shut it down, and reinstall the aftermarket RAM board. If that doesn't help, you'll probably have to replace the now-"obsolete" RAM board--buy Mac-specific RAM, not generic RAM advertised as being for PCs too.
    Reply to this comment
    by SleeplessLord December 19, 2004 6:28 PM PST
    <class="merchant"><span>&#62;&#62;</span><div class="datestamp"><i>This is a reply to a previous comment by John Sawyer</i></div></class><br />
    Thanks a lot for your comment. I actually bought and had the RAM installed at one of the Apple centres (I don't even know where my RAM board is; assumingly somewhere under the keboard).

    Resetting the RAM board sounds very tricky. Does anyone know where it is located in the April 2004 release iBooks? Can the resetting and the other things that you suggested void the warranty? Thank you.
    Reply to this comment
    by WhiteDog December 19, 2004 6:28 PM PST
    <class="merchant"><span>&#62;&#62;&#62;</span><div class="datestamp"><i>This is a reply to a previous comment by SleeplessLord</i></div></class><br />
    For information on resetting the Power Management Unit on an iBook, see the Apple Support Database article at http://docs.info.apple.com/article.html?artnum=14449.

    On the issue of moving Apple apps, I have the communications programs like Safari and Mail in a subfolder (named Communications, naturally) in my Applications folder. In order to make it easier to move them back to their native location in the Applications folder before an update, I have given each one a label color (all the same color). This make them easy to find and easy to make sure I haven't overlooked any. Then, after doing an update, I move them back where I want them.

    ---
    Don't anthropomorphize computers.
    They hate that.
    Reply to this comment
    by ajplatt December 20, 2004 1:19 PM PST
    Installed 10.3.7 on three machines, 12PB, eMac &amp; 733QS, no real problems
    with any of them.
    Reply to this comment
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