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June 23, 2009 10:30 AM PDT

Green-car loans awarded to Ford, Nissan, Tesla

by Wayne Cunningham
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Nissan EV-02

Nissan demonstrates a viable electric power train in this test mule.

(Credit: Antuan Goodwin/CNET)

Updated at 11:35 a.m. Tuesday with further loan details.

The U.S. government, which plans to kick-start development of a new generation of fuel-efficient automobiles through the Advanced Technology Vehicles Manufacturing Loan Program, announced on Tuesday some loan application winners.

Ford Motor gets loans totaling $5.9 billion, going to a variety of fuel efficiency initiatives, while a $1.6 billion loan to Nissan is intended to help it refit a Tennessee plant for electric car production.

Tesla Motors is also a winner under the program, getting a $465 million loan, most of which will be used to build production facilities for the recently announced Model S electric sedan.

The $25 billion Advanced Technology program has been in discussion for some time, and automakers have been lining up to get loans under the program. A stipulation that only viable companies can get loans under the program caused General Motors and Chrysler's applications to be turned down, though both companies have developed hybrid and electric-car platforms.

Ford announced plans earlier this year to release an electric vehicle in 2011, co-developed with parts supplier Magna Steyr. The company will use its loans to produce that vehicle, along with a commercial electric vehicle based on its Transit model in 2010.

Nissan has been one of the leaders among the major automakers in advancing a pure electric car, promising to make one powered by a lithium ion battery pack on U.S. roads in 2010.

As a technology demonstration, Nissan has shown its EV-02 test mule to journalists, an electric car using the Nissan Cube platform, getting a range of about 100 miles. The company is designing its Tennessee plant to produce 150,000 electric cars per year, and associated battery manufacturing will produce 200,000 lithium ion packs per year. The plant is slated to begin production in 2012.

Other aspiring automakers still await a decision. One such applicant, Indiana-based Bright Automotive, plans to build a commercial plug-in hybrid electric vehicle for fleet use. The company has received no word or time line on its application.

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by sherbisness June 23, 2009 11:15 AM PDT
Converting a former SUV plant to small car production, is a step in the right direction.
Reply to this comment
by Renegade Knight June 23, 2009 11:31 AM PDT
Recycling any old plant to make a new model is a good thing. What it made before is a non issue. Only that the ground is recycled and the plant is still in production and both blight and sprawl are avoided.
by CorwinB June 23, 2009 11:48 AM PDT
Why so little to Tesla? I don't get it.
Reply to this comment
by rdupuy11 June 23, 2009 1:28 PM PDT
It's what they applied for....I know crazy, the government should force more money on them.

There are either two things at work here, either, 1) this is a viable loan, in which case, the government just swooped in and took business from banks, and now hurting the very banks that they are also propping up.

or 2) these are not viable loans, in which case, why present them to the taxpayer as such.

The problem here is that George Bush didn't believe in anything...given that, why should Obama.
by CorwinB June 23, 2009 2:49 PM PDT
I think it's more of an issue that the credit market has dried up. Banks just don't want to put money into much anything right now. I think that is more so the problem and not so much that the loans are not viable. I know I have read about other smaller car companies having difficulty and it not being on issues of viability and more so a problem with the credit market being overly cautious.

You are probably right about Tesla applying for that amount though. I wasn't really thinking about this being a loan situation. when I asked.
by knowles2 June 24, 2009 1:14 PM PDT
I think the biggest reasion is that the US goverment is trying to prevent mnufactorers from moving aboard.

Given Tesla is a new company with no manufactoring facilities it would make more sense for them to move to a far cheaper location say china, where labour markets are far cheaper.

Plus tje credits market why they are finally unfrozen the cost of credit is far higher than even a year ago, given the Obarma promise of creating more jobs speeding up these projects is project is vital.
Through I am surprise Tesla did not apply for more money to developed a cheap electric car.
by MadLyb June 23, 2009 12:09 PM PDT
I'm a little disappointed that Ford took this money. They have been doing pretty good lately about going it on their own. Wish they had kept doing so.

Creating an artificial economy for products by underwriting it with cheap government loans will not change customer sentiment. A compelling product will do that and honestly we are just starting to see compelling products in this area instead of the tin cans filled with batteries that have been the norm.
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by ferricoxide June 23, 2009 7:55 PM PDT
Have you priced an unsubsidized, all-electric vehicle? You can buy them (well, you can get conversions) directly from companies like Ener1 (one of the battery makers that's going to be used by several auto manufacturers). Those conversions will set you back $50k+ (and that doesn't include the price of the vehicle you're having modified. Hell, just the conversion to make a Prius into a PHEV isn't exactly cheap.

Point being, there's plenty of people out there that would love and could use an all-electric vehicle. However, the cost of doing so is prohibitive at this point. Loan programs allow reductions in pricing so that demand can be created sooner. Given enough "real" demand, economies of scale kick in, driving down the price of the product to the point that subsidies become unnecessary.

It's sorta like what will most likely be required to switch to alternative fuel sources like hydrogen. The government can be there to facilitate getting around the chicken/egg problem.
by MadLyb June 24, 2009 5:20 AM PDT
@ferricoxide

That is the whole point. If electric vehicles continue to cost 2-3 times a fossil fuel solution, then they are not viable alternative, no matter how much money you throw at it. Saying that the only reason that EV (and other alternative solutions) haven't gained acceptance is because the market just needs a jumpstart is foolishness.

I'm sure there are plenty of people out there that want flying cars as well, but the technology is still very expensive and specialized. Should the government underwrite that market as well?
by SpiritWater June 23, 2009 12:14 PM PDT
It would be nice to see Tesla grow into what GM and Crysler should have been in the auto industtry (i.e. leaders in fuel economy and green technologies).
Reply to this comment
by bobpolo June 23, 2009 12:23 PM PDT
The question is not why so little for tesla why give them any money at all, they can't even manufacture the sports car.
by HeavyJim June 23, 2009 9:50 PM PDT
Don't look to hydrogen, especially since the obama bunch has cut out the almost 1 and a half billion that was dedicated to fuel cell research. Of course the mainstream media has ignored this.
by pserfass June 24, 2009 2:53 PM PDT
Hydrogen has TONS of potential. The Obama Administration cut it based on misinformation. See
+ http://wheels.blogs.nytimes.com/2009/05/12/fight-for-hydrogen-funding/
+ http://www.hydrogenassociation.org/media/pressReleases/07may09_nhaUSFCC.pdf
by willdryden June 27, 2009 4:18 PM PDT
There are too many problems with hydrogen to be worth mentioning. The worst is that it takes 4 times the energy to produce it than what you get out of it.
by BogusBasin June 23, 2009 12:41 PM PDT
All of us Republicans know that clean technology can not work under any circumstances and at any price because drill baby drill wink wink amen you betcha. Oh, I forgot to mention socialism. Can't speak republican without mentioning that. Amen.
Reply to this comment
by sanenazok June 23, 2009 4:36 PM PDT
Wow these comments are more inane than your comments regarding Windows.
by rdupuy11 June 23, 2009 1:17 PM PDT
am I crazy, or are banks in the business of lending money to viable enterprises?
Reply to this comment
by wcunning June 23, 2009 2:45 PM PDT
Not recently. The accumulation of bad loans made by the banks in the last five years has led them to either charge very high interest rates on loans, or due to lack of capital not make any loans at all.

You also might want to consider that it is in the country's interest to promote the development of next generation fuel efficient cars. It's a very important industry and one in which we want to be a leader. For our global economic security, isn't it better to fund this type of development rather than hold it up because it interferes with a free market ideal that isn't actually working right now?
by SactoGuy018 June 23, 2009 1:38 PM PDT
Ford needed the money because they publicly announced work on plug-in hybrid electric vehicle (PHEV) and battery electric vehicle (BEV) versions of the next-generation Ford Focus (the "regular" versions will arrive fall 2010 worldwide, including the USA). Because development costs are very steep, Ford could use the money to fund the development work.

By 2012, we will be seeing at least the PHEV Focus in showrooms, likely derived from the hybrid drivetrain technology now used on the Ford Fusion sedan.
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by kieranmullen June 23, 2009 9:42 PM PDT
Good to hear they are loans not giveaways like GM had. Then again who knows which one of these will fail leaving us with the bill. Why are we loaning non US companies money ? Nissan? Really?



KieranMullen

[CNET editors' note: Prohibited content deleted.]
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by theBike1945 June 24, 2009 7:54 AM PDT
Tesla technology totally sucks. Recent analyses by engineering panels observed that Tesla's battery pack is obsolete and prone to repeated failure over time. Why? Well, you can start off with the fact that Tesla is using previous generation li ion batteries of a small format - they were designed and built for flashlights, not automobiles. Contrast that with the state-of-the-art LG batteries developed specifically for the Chevy Volt. They will last well over 10 years. Those in the Tesla (at $30,000) will last probably around 5 years. Tesla does not provide a guarantee beyond 3 years, even though their advertsiing leads you to believe that they will still function 10 years from now. They won't. And they know it. Just another "Musk-ism" I suppose, like the other dozen claims he has made over the past year and a half, leaving him with all the credibility of Iran's ruling party. His latest tall tale is apparently that , thru some mysterious process, he has managed to redcue the production cost of the roadster from $140K to $80K. I'll bet that the evidence for that is less than ironclad. Costing a car is utterly impossible until you finish production. Only then do you really know how much each unit cost, since each unit must contribute to the upfront costs. Knowing Musk and his erratic behavior, I would bet a lot of money that he is simply eliminating previous costs from the equation. No production costs can possibly fall that far , not unless you start leaving out the battery pack, etc. I see that Musk is still the same unreliable jerk he always was.
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by willdryden June 27, 2009 4:23 PM PDT
You can not be sure that the LG batteries will last until they are on the road. That is the problem with all lithium batteries right now. NiMH are the only batteries that are known to work 10 years/100,000 miles.
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