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November 14, 2008 7:40 AM PST

Is rear-pro the way to go for a large-screen TV?

by David Carnoy
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Around the holiday season we get a lot of e-mails from readers agonizing over what TV to buy. With the economy the way it is, consumers aren't completely shying away from buying new TVs, but they're on tight budgets and appear to be predominantly interested screen sizes 52 inches or smaller. The big problem with going bigger is that you jump into a whole new price class when you start looking at the Panasonic 58-inch plasma--and it gets worse when you check out Pioneer's 60-incher. The exception to all this is DLP-based rear-projection HDTVs, where Samsung and Mitsubishi are the only real remaining players. Remarkably, Best Buy is selling our editors' choice Samsung HL61A750 for $1,600 and the 67-inch inch model in the same line goes for $2,000. Meanwhile, Best Buy has the 65-inch Mitsubishi WD-65735 for a mere $1,500.

Baby got back: On the surface, Samsung's 61-inch 1080p LED-Powered DLP HDTV looks like a plasma or LCD--but it's not.

(Credit: Samsung)

But rear-projection is a dying breed, right? Or, as one reader commented, "Everyone seems to be getting out of the rear-projection market. What happens if Samsung completely kills it? What happens then? Will they service my TV?"

Yes, most pundits agree that rear-pro is indeed on its way out. I've said as much in earlier columns. And in his review of the Samsung HL61A750, senior editor David Katzmaier wrote, "The way things are going, 2008 or 2009 may be the last year for rear-projection, lasers notwithstanding." As for lasers, he was referring to Mitsubishi's Laser TV, which, at $7,000 is a whole other beast we won't get into (Mitsubishi hasn't sent as a unit for review, but we hope we get our hands on one at some point). But with Sony, Panasonic, Hitachi, and others exiting the rear-pro market, things look pretty bleak. We used to have three technologies to choose from in this category (LCD, LCoS, DLP) and now we're down to DLP (the aforementioned Laser TV is actually a laser-powered DLP set).

Ironically, the bad economy may save rear-projection. That Samsung HL61A750 is one of the most popular products on CNET and it would appear that many people are willing to give up the whole thin factor of plasma and LCD for more screen size at a lower price point. The Samsung solves a couple of problems inherent to rear-pro DLP: it uses LEDs instead of a conventional bulb, which eliminates the rainbow effect (some people can see brief streaks of color with bulb-based DLP). The LEDs also last much, much longer than bulbs--they give you about 20,000 hours of life.

Rear-projection still has its disadvantages, aside from the obvious fact that it's not flat and so usually can't be hung on a wall. RPTVs lose brightness and picture fidelity when seen from off-angle--to either side or especially above and below. Than again, so do flat-panel LCDs. RPTVs can also be subject to geometry errors, where some lines that should appear straight, such as the bars to either or above and below the screen, are instead subtly curved. The middle of the screen on DLPs is usually brighter than the edges, and other uniformity problems can be seen on some models.

In reality however, most of these picture quality issues are subtle and well worth the savings to big-screen shoppers. So, the big question simply is, if the manufacturers jettison the remaining rear-pro TVs, will they keep servicing them should they break down?

I'm not in the business of making guarantees, but if you look at Sony, they've continued to support and provide parts for their LCoS-based SXRD TVs in the field (there are plenty of them), so I think that's a pretty good indication that Samsung and Mitsubishi will do the same. All I know is that I'll soon be in the market for a new large-screen TV and unless 58-inch and 61-inch plasmas get a whole lot more affordable over the next 6 months, I'm strongly considering rear-pro. It's hard not to at these prices.

Anybody agree or disagree? Please comment.

Hunkered down in New York City, Executive Editor David Carnoy covers the gamut of gadgets and writes his Fully Equipped column, which carries the tag line "The electronics you lust for." He's also the author of "Knife Music," a novel. E-mail David. Follow David on Twitter.
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Add a Comment (Log in or register) Showing 1 of 3 pages (50 Comments)
by jpersingeriii November 14, 2008 12:12 PM PST
Hello,
I just bought the 61" Samsung and I got it out the door for 1499.00. I absolutely love it.
I would recommend it to anyone in the market for a larger screen looking to save some serious bucks. With the tweak secrets I found on CNet, the picture is amazing!!! College football never looked better.
Go Bucks!
Jack Persinger III
Atlanta, GA
Reply to this comment
by jimothyGator November 17, 2008 9:33 AM PST
Jack,

Could you tell a fellow Atlantan where you managed to find the TV at that price? Amazon is selling it for just below that, shipping included, but if there's a local place, I'd love to go that route.

P.S. Go Gators!
by November 17, 2008 8:06 PM PST
Hellow Atlanta! I have a 65" Mitsubishi bulb-based hi def RP that I bought at the Sears Outlet at Discover Mills, right next to Bass Pro Shop (I-85, Sugarloaf Parkway, south of Mall of Georgia in Gwinett) for $1499. It retailed at $2499. I love it. Cabinet has two cracks on the bottom rear, looks like installers may have rolled it over a threshold too hard. There is also a scuff mark on the frame around the screen on the left. Not one person has ever noticed it, and it's in our media room in the basement anyway. Picture is great. I paired it with a Yamaha surround sound receiver & speaker system that was open box dispaly model at Best Buy & therefore also about half price. Add to that a clearance model LG hi def dvd player and a DLink media lounge to get pictures, movies and music from the internet and our home computer via the home wifi network, and we are the envy of the cul-de-sac.

I was an industrial engineer at the Mitsubishi CRT tv factory in Braselton, GA for 4 years before it closed in 1998 when they exited that technology market. I still have 35" and a 31" tube tv upstairs that look as good as they did when I bought them (at employee discount!) in 1996. The plasmas still come from Japan and I saw the very first ones off the multi-million dollar line in Kyoto. Impressive. But I just can't pass up a deal like the one we got! I went to the RP tv factory in Mexicali to help set it up and make some improvements in quality and flow. They had some severe quality and tech expertise issues when it first opened and began production in late 90's (after moving the line there from Santa Ana, California) but from what I can tell, they have completely worked them out. I don't plan on buying another TV for another ten years, but when I do, I will always always always go discount outlet center - and the Sears store at Discover Mills always has good deals.

Bucks?? Gators?!?!?!? What are y'all doin' livin in the Bulldog Nation?? How 'bout them Dawgs! (I'll admit - NOT so impressive this year as it turns out)
by slbyer November 14, 2008 12:15 PM PST
I'm most likely all over that Mistu as soon as I can see it in person for a bit. Why?

- I can't bring myself to buy a set that has even the slightest chance of burn-in (current RP set is on it's third set of tubes).
- The plasma screen-door is highly objectionable to me. The power consumption bothers me.
- The screen-door and the way off-angle degrades on direct view LCDs irritates me.
- We're not going smaller than the current 9-year-old Mitsu RPTV (65").
- With the electronics stack, good speakers, and media storage surrounding the TV, going flat doesn't buy us anything.
- I see the rainbows on bulb DLPs, and they nauseate me.

The Samsung 67" is the fall-back plan. We've seen it, stared at it, and it's a better picture than the Sharp 65" Aquos to my eye. By quite a bit. But yeah, I feel pressure to buy over the next few months, while there is still a viable choice that meets my criteria. There were years there where there was no viable replacement choice, I don't want to be back there again.

I was sad to see LCoS and RP-LCD fade away - we have a Sony RP-LCD in another room, and while not up to media center snuff, it was a stunning bargain for what it is.

Sony seemed determined to mess up it's LCoS sets. I would have bought one years ago had they fixed the problems (wrong sizes compared to everybody else, those stupid dumbo ear speakers, that stupid cheesy silver cabinet). It's no surprise they disappeared. The display technology was clearly superior to others at the time - they just completely whiffed on design, IMO.
Reply to this comment
by SirHomeALot November 17, 2008 1:45 PM PST
Plasma screen door? Which models have you been looking at? Yours is the first complaint on this I've ever read.
Also as for power consumption - it's true, Plasma's use more than the others - but only when power is maxed out. The actual power consumption is way lower in day-to-day use. Besides, how much freakin TV are you watching?
by November 17, 2008 2:46 PM PST
I love all the great ideas here but...I bought a 52 in Plasma and it is wonderful except that as an Amateur Radio Operator...it has soooo much Rf coming out of it that it interferes with all my radios. I have not heard of anyway to fix this problem...bummer. so if there is a next tv in the future it certainly won't be a plasma! Maybe the rear Pro is best?
by ghostfear November 14, 2008 2:57 PM PST
I own one and could not be happier. I got for around $1500. What a bargain.
Reply to this comment
by nonhispanicwhite November 14, 2008 4:27 PM PST
I have the 60" KDS60-A2020 (LcoS based) and i couldn't be any happier. i originally wanted a plasma but the prices are way outta hand. My main problem with LCD's is the juttering. its one of the most annoying things imaginable. You even see it in store but for some god awful reason people keep buying them. You want a big TV but low on cash, RP is the best way to go.
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by beefmalone November 14, 2008 6:05 PM PST
RP is the way to go. I have no issues with lateral viewing on my 3yr old Sony LCD RP tv although I did on my 5yr old Akai. Most of the LCDs and Plasmas I've seen were sitting on a stand anyway and the newer RPs are just 12" or so thick not like the 3ft thick old school ones where that might be an issue plus with the savings in price you can afford a long long warranty.
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by gbcox November 16, 2008 3:24 PM PST
I've owned HL61A750 for about 4 months now and am still completely satisfied. You absolutely cannot beat it for the price and the picture is fantastic. The best part is when people come over and check it out - their jaws drop at how great the picture looks. For whatever reason however they just don't seem to look that great in the stores - just ok. I think the markup must be greater on the LCDs and the Plasmas and the retailers push them. Bottom line, if you're in the market it's a no brainer. The picture is stunning and the LCD engine is extremely energy efficient - much better than plasma and LCD - and you never need worry about burn in.
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by akoryj November 17, 2008 7:49 PM PST
It's good to hear you say this. I went to BB about 6-8 months ago now planning on buying that tv. but the picture there just didn't impress me enough over my 3 year old 52" 720 dlp to make me spend the money. but i think they must "dumb it down" some or not have it optimized or why would you spend so much more for a smaller LCD/plasma?
by Darbraun November 17, 2008 5:22 AM PST
I've owned a 61" Samsung DLP for about 2 years now - perfect television.
For all the money saved going with the DLP I was able to go out and buy the Logitech Harmony 880, top quality cable management system, an awesome entertainment center stand - and the extended warranty for the Samsung.

I just can't see a reason to go flat unless you're wanting to hang the set on the wall.
Picture quality of the DLP rivals the quality of our 36" Sony LCD in our kitchen.
The light weight of the DLP (its all air) allows me to move the set around with the help of my wife, and helps keep it from scratching up the entertainment stand with I slide it to get behind it.
The depth of the set is only about a foot - so no lost major real estate.
The set it not hanging on the wall - so a quick hook-up of a new component takes seconds and does not turn into a whole day project (finding help to lift it down, hook it up, drill new holes to run cables, fishing wires through the walls, hanging it back up, making sure it is level).

Seriously - tell me why I should have gone with a flat panel set again?
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by Bulldog9 November 17, 2008 5:55 AM PST
Had a Mits 65831 for a few years, went through 2 bulbs and off-center viewing was horrendous making it hard for guests who didn't sit DIRECTLY in front of it. Add in a loud fan and it's initial $3800 price tag seemed OK at best. Good picture but rainbows could be seen on B/W movies or something like Sin City was horrible.

Put in in the rec room and just bought a 60" Kuro for the same price I paid 2 years ago for the Mits, and it honestly blows it clear out of the water. No screen door, no motion blur and BluRay, gaming and HD is picture perfect to me. Add in DLPs inevitable demise and it was a no-brainer for me, but DLP still offers bang for the buck.
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by ERG3-GA November 17, 2008 7:12 AM PST
I have 52-inch Toshiba DLP that I bought 3 years ago for about $1700. I have replaced the bulb 1-time (less that $150) and absolutely love the TV. I have gotten more compliments about it's image quality, clarity and color than you can imagine. It has been one of the best investments in electronics that I have made. I would strongly encourage the purchase of a DLP TV, especially know that they offer LED versions.

I happened to be at a local Fry's Electronics last week and still marveled at the new DLPs picture quality versus plasma and LCD. New LED DLPs have a great bright picture, use less electricity and rival plasma in picture clarity. I still have long-term color balance concerns with plasma and the even though LCDs have improved, you can still see motion blur on the new LCDs. Big issue if you love to watch sports.

If I was on the market for a new TV again right now, I would still make the same decision I made 3 years ago and buy a DLP. Too many pluses, not enough minuses.
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by lawgone November 17, 2008 8:32 AM PST
It's too bad that DLP and LCD rear pro are going away. I have a 42" Sony rear pro LCD and the picture is beautiful. I got it a couple years ago so it's only 720p but most people tell me it's the best picture they've ever seen at someone's house. I am sure I will get a flat panel LCD one day but the Sony rear pro has been great so far - minus a fried audio card that would have been $500 to replace. Luckily the repairman just took the board out and I get my audio through my stereo. Other than that, I've been very pleased.
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by jdmac29 November 17, 2008 9:17 AM PST
I got a Sony KDS 55A3000 sxrd set from Sears in the Spring for $1299, I love it.
I have an older Sony KDFE 42A10 rear pro lcd and so far I have not had to replace the bulb and no picture issues. For the prices for large screens like my 55 inch I would have to spend basically 1k or more on a lcd or plasma. As long as they make bulbs for my sets I should have them for years to come. Cnet rated the a3000 series as a editors choice before being replaced with the new samsung dlp.
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by donsms November 17, 2008 10:08 AM PST
Why oh why are these sets being discontinued?,seems like a perfectly good option for buying a large screen for as little money as their going for.I just can`t believe there being phased out of production due to falling sales,it has to be the manufactures aren`t making as much profit as a LCD or Plasma set.Too bad!!
Reply to this comment
by SirHomeALot November 17, 2008 1:47 PM PST
I doubt it. Manufacturers never stop making items for which there is a demand.
by mdepalm November 17, 2008 10:33 AM PST
I completely agree.

My father purchases the Samsung HL61A750 a year ago, and for more than what the retail price is now. This unit is amazing. When I finish my undergraduate study in May I will be purchasing one for my own livingroom
Reply to this comment
by CliffK2 November 17, 2008 10:40 AM PST
I have a 56 inch RE Mitsubishi. I sit about 15 feet away from it and really like the picture. I have had it for about 6 years and have not yet had to replace a bulb. If that happens, I may consider moving to a plasma or LCD, though the price for a flat screen of that size would be horrendous.

But I will look at the DLPs and RPs, as the new ones take up much less real estate than my Mit. What I would like is to get a size similar to my current 56 inch, but place it on a nice stand. That way, I can put all my components under the television, and the entire footprint will be smaller.
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by Izzorlas November 17, 2008 10:58 AM PST
I have had a 50 inch Sony SXRD for 2 years and I love it - 1080p with great black levels and it handles motion beautifully. It was a bargain when I bought it for 1700 dollars when it first came out - I'm sorry Sony stopped making these.
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by joetahoe November 17, 2008 12:39 PM PST
I picked up a 56" Panasonic LIFi for $988 with an included stand this past spring and I am very happy with it. My only concern with the RP was bulb life and was ready to pick up the Samsung 56" LED until I saw the Panasonic with a five year bulb warranty for $200 cheaper. BTW, this TV replaced a Sony 72" front projector that I had bought in 1981 and was still working!
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by Baer November 17, 2008 12:40 PM PST
I just bought a 65" Mitsu for under $1500. I do not care that it is a few inches thicker as it is built in to the theater cabinet anyway. The picture in a well light room is excellent, the color and resolution at 1080p are also excellent. So what if I have to replace a bulb in a few years, at the price I paid and with what I will save in electricity over a plasma I can buy lots of bulbs. If I had to pay twice as much for a different type I just might not have bought one right now.
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by richrider November 17, 2008 12:46 PM PST
I have two Toshiba 62" DLP 1080p units. Very happy with both. One key issue seems to be the TV's location and mounting.

One thing I'd like to see is a power consumption comparision between DLP's, LCD's and plasma TV's. In San Diego with a high power consumption bill, my family's marginal cost for electricity is an amazing 28 cents per KwH. (Yet another reason to leave Taxifornia.)

Even better would be an analysis of DLP savings (if any) after factoring in the bulb replacement cost. Sounds like a great spreadsheet to put together, where the variables can be input.

IF you don't have a stand for a DLP, the best buys are at Costco and (presumably) Sam's Warehouse -- because they usually include the stand, which is worth at least $150. But at such warehouse storey you have you you have a choice of only one -- maybe two -- DLP's. And for how much longer they'll carry them is anyone's guess.

Interesting aspect: Costco stopped selling DLP's for a bit, and then brought a model back to the store.

I'd like to see the mentioned LED DLP model. Probably makes the most sense overall.
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by rightslot November 17, 2008 1:15 PM PST
David,

I have bad news for you.

You should wait, or be serious about saving for a couple/three? months and get PLASMA.

There is NO COMPARISION between the rear projection and the plasma. The picture on the plasma is seriously, seriously, big time.

It is the closest you?ll get to being at the theater without spending mega bucks. It really is worth it.

I have the Panasonic 58. And since it was mounted on my family room wall in May of this year, I have been overwhelmed EACH DAY.

It?s almost surreal. Just the regular programs on TV are smooth, and filled with great color saturation. To say nothing about the Blu-ray movies!

The plasma just looks better. The picture is smooth, velvet like. The people do not have that almost animated look you can get with some LCD?s.

And I did research for over a couple years! I seen the big box rear projections go from looking terrible, to better, to pretty damn good.

But then came plasma. Boom! It was done.

And Panasonic gives you a very good alternative compared to the crazy money Pioneer.
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by Cyberian Husky November 17, 2008 1:20 PM PST
I have a Sony SXRD 50" LCoS Rear Projection that I bought 4 years ago. I was getting a bargin at the time, for $3399 when Best Buy wanted $4999. When you watch sports, the color and action are incredible! I've never even had to replace the bulb, but my TV doesn't log the hours that many do. This year I purchased a 46" Samsung for the Bedroom Wall. While I'm pleased with the Samsung, the picture is better on the Sony when it comes to live sports.

The viewing angle and other factors aren't an issue with the LCoS technology. I'm sorry to see it go.
With the Sony SXRD you don't have to worry if you paid enough, to get a refresh rate that's high enough for the action.
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About Fully Equipped

Executive Editor David Carnoy has been covering electronics for CNET since 2000, arriving at the company just as "that whole Internet bust thing" happened. Early on, he launched CNET's cell phone coverage, earning him the nickname "Wireless Dave," then moved on to bigger and broader things. Hunkered down in New York City, he oversees CNET's Home and Hardware reviews, which includes all things related to home theater, PC, and digital imaging. Fully Equipped covers the gamut of gadgets and gizmos and, to keep things lively, Carnoy likes to alternate between writing useful, advice-oriented pieces or thought-provoking columns with inflammatory headlines designed to elicit commentary from readers. Fully Equipped is the longest continuously running column on CNET.com.

For older columns, read the Fully Equipped archive (2002-2008).

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