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November 20, 2008 10:06 AM PST

When will we see the $99 Blu-ray player?

by David Carnoy

We've been keeping an eye on prices for Blu-ray players and it appears that a handful of budget-brand models are starting to crack the $150 barrier. The other day Woot.com had the Memorex MVBD2510 player at $139.99 for a one-day sale and now TheNerds.net is selling it for $146.99 (shipping included) and Buy.com has it at $149.99. That's on top of both the Samsung BD-P1500 and the Sony BDP-S300 slipping in and out of sub-$200 territory at Amazon and other outlets.

The Wall-E Blu-ray costs $10 more than the DVD: Is that too big a premium in a tight economy?

(Credit: Amazon)

While $150 isn't bad, I think we're going to see $99 fairly soon, with a couple of stops at $129.99. As we found out with HD-DVD players, $99 really is a magic price point, though it is worth pointing out that these budget Blu-ray players are only profile 1.1, while the $99 HD DVD players were fully up to spec and allowed for firmware upgrades via Ethernet (the cheap Blu-ray players can't be updated and sometimes simply can't play certain movies). Profile 1.1 players aren't BD-Live enabled, which means you won't be able to access certain interactive features--for better or worse.

BD-Live issues aside, I'm betting we'll see $99 for a Blu-ray player inside of four months, if not sooner, the way the economy is going. We can debate exactly when it will happen (feel free to comment), but in the near future the initiation fee for entering Club Blu-ray will be relatively negligible--or at least not a serious stumbling block.

That said, the bigger problem is prices for Blu-ray movies compared to DVDs. For example, if you take a look at Wall-E, which currently sits atop Amazon's Blu-ray bestseller list, it costs $24.95 versus $14.99 for the DVD. Granted, the Blu-ray version comes with three discs (there's a two-disc version for 50 cents less, but why bother?) and the DVD is only a single disc. The fact is the majority of blue-chip Blu-ray titles cost around $25, with some, like Iron Man, coming in at $20. (It's also worth noting that you don't get the free shipping on Amazon on anything less than $25, which makes you understand the price has been set where it is for a reason).

I realize that manufacturers, retail outlets, and studios want to preserve margins as long as they can and they've made an effort to present Blu-ray as a premium format that deserves to be marked up. But asking people to pay 50-75 percent extra when everybody's cutting back already is going to crimp sales of both Discs and players.

The smart people are opting to rent rather than buy (Netflix charges an extra buck for Blu-ray rentals, but it's still a good deal, especially when you consider you get its free movie streaming service thrown in). That said, I know folks who say they'll only consider switching to Blu-ray when players are $99 and the price gap between DVD and Blu-ray movies is minimal. Of course, others will never switch, preferring instead to download zero-cost illegal pirated flicks or stream legal free content from Hulu, Netflix, and others.

What do you guys think? At what point is Blu-ray really going to take off (if ever)? Is one of these stripped-down, cheap players worth buying? And are Discs too expensive?

Hunkered down in New York City, Executive Editor David Carnoy covers the gamut of gadgets and writes his Fully Equipped column, which carries the tag line "The electronics you lust for." He's also the author of "Knife Music," a novel. E-mail David. Follow David on Twitter.
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Add a Comment (Log in or register) Showing 1 of 3 pages (53 Comments)
by gordianknots November 20, 2008 11:08 AM PST
A large percentage of people do not own High Definition televisions which makes Blu-Ray rather worthless to them. Also, the benefits of Blu-Ray over DVD are basically just higher picture quality while DVD offered many other benefits over VHS like smaller size, random access, scene selection menus, not wearing out, multiple audio programs and interactive content. Blu-Ray also has strong copy protection so consumers interested in backing up or pirating their movies will be turned off by Blu-Ray.
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by fooldog01 November 21, 2008 6:59 AM PST
100% spot on gordianknots. Ive got nothing to add.
by KUKitch November 21, 2008 7:04 AM PST
hasn't the copy protection on the HD format also already been cracked? is that not available to the public yet/not out yet? i'd thought i saw such things written about awhile back, though i could be off
by darcal123 November 21, 2008 9:30 AM PST
This is EXACTLY the case. There is not as big of a difference between Blu-ray and DVD as there was with DVD and VHS. That along with the fact Blu-ray movies are waaaaaay too expensive. The only way Blu-ray will appeal to the vast majority is if quality players start dipping below $100/150 and new release movies start dipping below $15/20. Without much incentive nobody will buy into Blu-ray.
by Renegade Knight November 21, 2008 3:19 PM PST
"Blu-Ray also has strong copy protection so consumers interested in backing up or pirating their movies will be turned off by Blu-Ray"

Thus far it's more accurate to say. "Because of DRM customers who buy BlueRay will likely be disspointed when their High Def Equipment doesn't play back their High Def Blue Ray. Legitimate customers are the ones more likely to be turned off. Pirates never cared to begin with.
by sting7k November 30, 2008 8:03 PM PST
Exactly right. And many DVDs still look very good up converted on an HDTV. Not enough people own HDTVs to reap the benefits of Blu-ray, and it is more expensive. Until HDTVs get even cheaper (a lot) Blu-ray will be held back. If they lower the prices on the movies I know many PS3 owners who would be picking up a lot more Blu-ray movies and not just raiding the sales bins from time to time.
by NintendoPurist November 20, 2008 11:09 AM PST
I say there's a happy medium. I went out and bought Wall-E for Blu-ray. And that'll be all this month for Blu-rays. And to their credit DVDs have a high quality picture, especially if you have a player doing upconversion; some movies just don't warrant a Blu-ray purchase because they don't have the need for an HD resolution any way. So yeah, I purchased a player, but I'll be picking and choosing which movies I buy will be Blu-ray, and which will be DVD, and others will only be a rental regardless.
And for everything else, there's Hulu.
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by mpell03 November 20, 2008 11:20 AM PST
I think that the price of Blu-Ray movies themselves is the key to opening up the market. I have the PS3 and have not really purchased many Blu-Ray movies yet due to the price. I also agree with the previous post. Some movies are just not worth buying in "HD". It really depends and I think people will think along those lines when looking to buy Blu-Ray.
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by rkinne01 November 20, 2008 11:23 AM PST
This article points out something that has made me reluctant to pick a Blu Ray player, the whole profile thing. I don't want to buy now and be stuck with a player that won't play movies or certain features. I'm also concerned that if they decided to go to profile 3.0 if the Blu-Ray player will be upgradable. We're also mulling over skipping Blu-Ray altogether considering that Hi-Def content is available for download, this way we have no worries over the fore-mentioned profiles. At this point it looks like we'll pass on Blu-Ray.
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by macke9c1 November 20, 2008 11:29 AM PST
I have no problem whatsoever for paying $150 up to $200-$300 for a good blu-ray player to top off my home entertainment system. The problem i have is with the cost of the movies. I wouldnt mind buying blu-ray movies and setting up a killer library but the price point of the movies has just a bit too much padding in it to make it seem worthwhile. I am happy with my HD programing and HD movies on demand and for the price im paying, i feel like i am just getting a better deal. Now, once the price of the blu-ray movie comes down i wouldn't mind sinking some cash into a blu-ray player and movies for a better selection than what the cable company decides to put on demand.
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by alsbob23 November 20, 2008 11:35 AM PST
While budget Blu Ray players are nice, I definitely feel that a PS3 is a better investment. I love my PS3, and when combined with my netflix subscription, I'm in Heaven. The PS3 while expensive is in my opinion, a smart purchase because Sony constantly updates it. If a new Blu Ray profile is released, best believe my PS3 will be updated to accomodate it. It can do 24fps, DTS MA, and you can connect to the 'net wirelessly, a real convenience. To date, I haven't ever seen a compatibility error on any of the blu ray discs I've rented from Netflix. Plus, I LOVE the ability to stream music and video from my comp or a NAS box that I have. It provides future proofing to a degree. Again, I know it might be out of some peoples' budgets, but its definitely worth the money. You really can't go wrong with it.
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by nevosho November 20, 2008 11:40 AM PST
Concurrent with the drop in price, the consumer is going to have to feel friendly with the hardware before they buy it. They have to feel that what they are paying for is easy to use, as it is stressed everywhere how much more advanced the technology is.

As a mainstream consumer, I am looking to upgrade my TV, sound system, and dvd player next Christmas...and by then I feel there will be a lot more people with me.
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by craigfaircloth November 20, 2008 11:46 AM PST
Blu-Ray is a half step in technology and nothing more. Remember laser disc the record size digital video medium. That we be Blu-Ray's fate. The next step is downloading high-def programming on demand to the television, not the computer. I can't wait until it happens on a large scale. I want to be able to watch any movie any show in the highest definition available. And, I want to watch it on my time, not the networks. That will be the next full step in vidoe tech, and I can't wait until it happens. The only barrier is bandwidth, there needs to be more, much more. So please!!!! That's what I really want for christmas, Santa!
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by dodgeman007 November 30, 2008 11:24 AM PST
man you are way way off, with ISP's limiting total bandwidth for a month to 150 gigs or so you realize thats maybe 5 movies then you cant use the high speed conection your paying probably fifty bucks for the rest of the month. its quite a ways off as they are moving backwards not forwards on that front. and another big thing with blu-ray people are missing is lossless audio, thats leaps and bounds above dolby 5.1 and yeah you can already copy blu-ray disks, the problem is your still paying 10 bucks or so for 1 blank blu-ray disk... not worth it at this point it time but i can copy them to my computer right now, its really easy.
by familyguy5 November 20, 2008 2:17 PM PST
140 at woot and buy.com , don't need fluff, standard 1.1's fine for now. .Probably under 100 by January.
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by mmntech November 20, 2008 2:27 PM PST
It's always funny when Americans complain about the price of BD movies versus DVDs. Take the prices for Wall-e listed here, add $10 to both the DVD and BD versions, and that's how much they are in Canada. Highway robbery if you ask me. I haven't bought to many BD movies since I got my PS3 last year. The picture and sound are excellent but the discs themselves are way too expensive. DVD still looks good, and I can rip them to watch on my PSP, which is still legal here for the time being. There aren't a lot of incentives to buy them, or to replace my current DVDs with BD.

The big problem with BD is that it doesn't cater to what consumers want. They want movies and players that are cheap. They don't want interactive BD-Live features. The vast majority of people still don't own HDTVs, and in the economic downturn, adoption is going to be slower. It's going to be a rough road ahead for Blu-ray.
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by greenwolfe7 November 20, 2008 2:35 PM PST
yeah last I heard on bfads.net either best buy or circuit city was going to have a 99$ blu-ray player on black friday.
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by planblove November 20, 2008 2:43 PM PST
I say by next spring we'll be at $99 for the profile 1.1 players. The only thing missing from these players is the, up til now, very mediocre BD live content. I have a profile 1.1player and so far, out of about 80 discs its played just about every (a few did not play) movie I've thrown at it. Is that a deal breaker? It could be for some but not for me. But I also own a fully updated PS3 so that helps too.
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by rowdyguy124 November 21, 2008 4:54 AM PST
If the studios would have made the smart choice, we would have all been using HD-DVD with no compatability problems, no 1.1, 2.0 fiascos, firmware upgradable, and still incredible video and sound. So the $99 Toshiba, $5-$20 HD-DVD movies get me all the true uncompressed HD videos I could ask for, while I watch the more recent movies through HD on demand, or trusty dvd upconverted. I can wait till Blu-Ray gets it's act together if ever. And $25-$30 for BR discs are too much! Downloading content will likely be the way to go within the next 5 years anyway once bandwidth and storage costs drop even more.
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by lobo65 November 21, 2008 6:15 AM PST
Bah. I get around the ridiculous cost of Blu-Ray discs by buying them used from private sellers on Amazon.
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by labazzo November 21, 2008 6:16 AM PST
I will not buy blue ray until it is sub 100 and all the specs are up to par. Of course that means one of my current DVD players kicked the bucket. If that happens before blue ray is sub 100 and specs are good then I will just buy a upconvert DVD player. Movies are cheaper too. In short blue ray must be sub 100,up to spec, and movies must be the same as DVD.
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by imedgeman November 21, 2008 9:07 AM PST
I believe the whole format war combined with the profiles are still making people uncomfortable dropping any serious money on a player. If you got burned and own a useless HD-DVD player, you don't want to throw more money after a BR player that could become obsolete because of the confusing (to the general public) profiles.
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by benoddo November 21, 2008 2:23 PM PST
Right now the only thing that's keeping me from buying a Blu-Ray player is the uncertainty of the economy. If I knew my job were secure, I'd go out tomorrow and blow $400.00 for a PS3 or a Panasonic DMP-55BD player. Last summer before the economy began its Titanic like floundering, I bought a 50 inch plasma 1080p HDTV. I want to enjoy all this TV has to offer and the best I can do so far is 1080i with the usual artifacts and other video noise that comes in via cable. And old DVD player really does an injustice to this TV.

I feel comfortable about Profile 2.0. While it is not 100% future-proof, you have nothing to worry about with Profile 3.0 as it will only impact audio. And it won't really matter to most users unless you are an over the top audiophile.

If I can find what I want at a real bargain price, I won't care too much now for the the price of Blu-Ray movies. They will come down. Does anyone remember buying their first movie on VHS, and what it cost? My original copy of Star Wars on VHS set me back $75.00 back in the early 80's. Rudimentary stereo sound and a 4:3 aspect ratio. We've come a long way since then and we have further to go.

Until movie prices drop, I have plenty of DVD's I can watch up-converted by the Blu-Ray player I have yet to buy. While it's not the best, it will do.
by sjschaef November 21, 2008 10:34 AM PST
I have an HD TiVo where I can rent movies right off Amazon.com and starting next month, I can watch all of the streaming movies off of Next Flix. I have an upconverting DVD player that cost me around $50 and I rarely purchase a DVD unless it is a really great movie (Dark Knight!) I don't think I will ever purchase a BR player unless it costs me roughly the same as normal DVDs and the player which I rarely buy now.
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by November 21, 2008 11:01 AM PST
My problem is that Blu-Ray Discs aren't (probably on purpose) backwards compatible. I'm not going to start buying movies until Blu-Ray players are main stream enough to be installed in portable DVD players and in to car video systems, etc. I don't want to have 2 buy versions of every movie.
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by GAstorino November 21, 2008 1:19 PM PST
I think the best thing they could do would be to somehow have hybrid disks like HD use to have so you get both regular and Blu Ray in the same package at a lower price. If I buy blu ray I generally can't take it to any family or friends home to play because they don't have blu ray which defeats some of the enjoyment of owning the movies. Regular DVD is more accessable then bluray and I can put my legally owned dvd's onto my ipod or play on my computer a lot easier as well.
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by ricklabanca November 21, 2008 1:24 PM PST
No hi def here yet, and I think many like me have a hard time thinking studios are just trying to make be buy titles I have already yet one more time!

Hi def or not they won't do as well as dvd until they cost what dvd does. dvd really exploded because of pricing.
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About Fully Equipped

Executive Editor David Carnoy has been covering electronics for CNET since 2000, arriving at the company just as "that whole Internet bust thing" happened. Early on, he launched CNET's cell phone coverage, earning him the nickname "Wireless Dave," then moved on to bigger and broader things. Hunkered down in New York City, he oversees CNET's Home and Hardware reviews, which includes all things related to home theater, PC, and digital imaging. Fully Equipped covers the gamut of gadgets and gizmos and, to keep things lively, Carnoy likes to alternate between writing useful, advice-oriented pieces or thought-provoking columns with inflammatory headlines designed to elicit commentary from readers. Fully Equipped is the longest continuously running column on CNET.com.

For older columns, read the Fully Equipped archive (2002-2008).

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