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May 5, 2009 4:56 AM PDT

Photos, details leaked on expected Kindle

by David Carnoy

A blurry photo of what appears to be a dry run of tomorrow's presentation.

(Credit: Engadget)

Here's the latest on Amazon's new, larger Kindle, which is expected to be announced Wednesday morning at Pace University in Manhattan, according to numerous sources.

  • Thanks to an apparently surreptitious cameraphone photographer, Engadget has posted some blurry photos of what looks to be the dry run of tomorrow's presentation. They're not all that exciting--the new Kindle just looks like a jumbo Kindle 2.
  • This Kindle may be called the Kindle DX, according to Engadget's anonymous source.
  • The same source says it has a 9.7-inch screen (compared to the 6-inch screen on the Kindle 2).
  • Allegedly, the device has a more robust built-in PDF reader and "the ability to add annotations in addition to notes and highlights."
  • The Wall Street Journal has an article on the textbook angle of the new Kindle.
  • Rumor has it that The New York Times will be lowering its Kindle subscription rate from $13.99 to $9.99. That would be a good move if true.
  • The Wall Street Journal says the new Kindle will have a more functional browser.
  • It's also reporting that select students at select universities will receive the new, larger Kindles with pre-installed textbooks for chemistry, computer science and a freshman seminar. Pace, Case Western, Princeton, Reed, Arizona State, and Darden School at the University of Virginia will initially lead the lineup for the college Kindle program.
  • There's no word on price or whether this will be a touch-screen model.

As always, feel free to comment. We'll have full details Wednesday on the new Kindle after it's officially announced.

Hunkered down in New York City, Executive Editor David Carnoy covers the gamut of gadgets and writes his Fully Equipped column, which carries the tag line "The electronics you lust for." He's also the author of "Knife Music," a novel. E-mail David. Follow David on Twitter.
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by ddanckaert May 5, 2009 5:17 AM PDT
The Kindle for the older set. I can't imagine commuting with anything in that DX form factor. Clearly, the geezer (cough, boomer) population will be well served by the large screen.

It's a sure bet that Bezos will be trumpeting the NYT on the larger display (as a better newspaper replacement). Unfortunately, it's not. I'd use the NYT on my iPhone (either through the web browser or the iPhone application). It's free--none of this subscription business. I'll look at ads, but I'm not going to pay for a newspaper (it's the economy, stupid).
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by zyxxy May 5, 2009 7:36 AM PDT
If it has a functional browser, you can do the same thing here.
I would much rather commute next to someone carrying this than someone that doesn't understand how to properly fold a paper for reading on the train.

You can't imaging commuting with this? I can't imagine trying to read the NYT on an iPhone, and my eyes are pretty good.
by chuckwh May 5, 2009 8:48 AM PDT
We geezers actually have an attention span that goes beyond 140 characters. So yes, we're going to enjoy reading it while you excitedly tell your twitting friends about the shape of your new set of margarita glasses.
by gadlaw May 5, 2009 8:53 AM PDT
Geezer? Clearly you believe you will never age or grow old. Must be nice, as it is, folks do get older and eyes get worse and you know, some lifestyles are spent on subways or buses and not lived on the 'go'. So something that is bigger and with the ability to have bigger type and which will be at home seems like a brilliant thing indeed.
by petersellmer May 5, 2009 5:28 AM PDT
I own a Kindle and am a great fan yet there are certain limitations that questions its usefulness as a text book. When I read a novel on my Kindle it's a very linear activity - in other words I start at the beginning and move forward one page at the time. The Kindle manages this very well. On the other hand when I use a text book my engagement with it is very non-linear, in other words I need to move around a lot and access specific pages which I find by thumbing through it - The Kindle does not manage this very well (for example there are no page numbers). Will have to see how the students in the test respond...
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by scaught78 May 5, 2009 5:39 AM PDT
I agree 100%. I am currently in grad school. When I am studying, I usually have multiple markers in a textbook so I can jump back and forth and make notes on the pages. I am curious too how this can be handled with the bigger Kindle.
by toomath May 5, 2009 8:32 AM PDT
The page numbers thing is an issue for citations - Kindle does have location numbers, but it's not clear if using a Kindle Location in a citation would be acceptable for graduate-level work due to the relatively recent nature of the technology (and the fact that the location number is an Amazon-specific reference, rather than an industry standard.) In Questia, the online academic library, they use the "real" dead-tree page numbers so that people can provide citations. Obviously the long term requires all-digital citations.
by skrubol May 5, 2009 1:20 PM PDT
To really compete as a textbook the Kindle needs touch-screen highlighting (which may be a challenge with a monochrome screen, I guess some sort of underlining/boxing could work,) page numbers (the correspond to the page numbers in the real book,) some way of tabbing or dog-earing (a list of highlights could work.) Search and linked indices would help make it a better text book.
by gambori May 5, 2009 5:50 AM PDT
Thanks but no thanks. I am not going to pay $400+ for a nice toy and then pay for ebooks and newspapers that I can get for free on the Internet.
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by ballmerisanape May 5, 2009 5:51 AM PDT
What demographic does the Kindle target? 40 y/o and up? What's going to happen to the Kindle when the Kindle owners start to die out over the next 15 years or so?
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by TBA3 May 5, 2009 6:33 AM PDT
Um, new 40+ year olds will take their place?
by sfxpat1 May 5, 2009 7:00 AM PDT
Maybe it would be better if they started to die out now. And why is someone called a geezer if they want to read a BOOK--paper and ink? If someone is so dead to the world that they cannot love an actual book . . . Well, fie on the poor sods.
by ZetaZeta_ May 5, 2009 7:12 AM PDT
@TBA3:
The "new 40+ y/os" in 15 years are the 25-39 year olds today... His argument was probably that we like our better technology, and simplicity is less of an issue, since we've been exposed to it more.

@ballmerisasnape:
In 15 years there will be new products. Heck, in 2 years there'll be a new product, I'm sure.
by zyxxy May 5, 2009 7:42 AM PDT
Exactly. In fifteen years the Kindle will not exist. Look at the tech from fifteen years ago and extrapolate forward to today. Now double that rate of change and extrapolate forward fifteen years. By then you will have direct retinal projection. 'Display size' won't even enter the conversation.
by Zoobie May 5, 2009 8:32 AM PDT
Ummm.... They will be 55 years old and probably have even more disposable income than they do today since they won't be supporting kids any more. You must be 12 if you think a 40-year old is almost dead.
by steve5200 May 5, 2009 6:07 PM PDT
I am 38 years old. According to you, I only have 17 years before I kick the bucket. I sure hope your wacky theory doesn't prove to be true.
by make_or_break May 5, 2009 6:15 PM PDT
Kids today...tsk. Don't y'all realize that your pitiful excuses for brains don't even click into gear before you hit 35?
by PhyllisC May 5, 2009 7:13 PM PDT
Thanks loads! I'm 66 and don't plan to die any time soon. You, unfortunately, remind me of the person who found out I own parrots and asked what I'll do with them when I die because the birds will outlive me. I sure appreciate reminders of my mortality.

Even if people over 40 are the only ones who buy these products, you can only hope you'll live to join them.
by lfreel May 5, 2009 6:03 AM PDT
"What demographic does the Kindle target? 40 y/o and up? What's going to happen to the Kindle when the Kindle owners start to die out over the next 15 years or so?" Ahhh, there will more to take their place? Will the species end?
Reply to this comment
by ska1138 May 5, 2009 6:32 AM PDT
I would buy a product like this if it had two features: (1) full user control over what documents to upload; (2) full support of Adobe Reader 8+ including the table of contents sidebar. This second feature would make textbooks far more usable.
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by phineas2 May 5, 2009 6:38 AM PDT
I got news for you, lfreel, people 40+ are not going to be "dying out" in 15 years. I have many issues with the Kindle, and I'm a heavy web reader. But the issue may be that younger people don't read newspapers and magazines anymore. It doesn't matter whether there's an electronic device to read them on or not. I read news on the Web, period. But magazines are a different issue -- and textbooks might work (although I use post-its and highlighters too, so I agree there's an issue).

For me, the big Kindle is missing some important things for magazines: Color. Optional Backlight. And I'm still not sure it's large enough to replace printed magazines for People, Forbes, or Car & Driver reader.

And forget newspapers. Train commuters may be interested, I guess. But you have to be an almost everyday reader at these prices. And you have to carry the thing around.

I use my Kindle 2 to read fiction and non-fiction books only. I take it on the road, but it's not with me 24x7.
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by shouldyoubuyabookreader May 5, 2009 6:53 AM PDT
If you're still on the fence about buying a Kindle, check out http://shouldyoubuyabookreader.com - it will take your Amazon Wishlist and will compute your savings should you switch from printed books to electronic ones.
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by sourpathetic May 5, 2009 7:27 AM PDT
Better yet, think about how much you'll save by checking books out from the public library. Instead of purchasing your book, put it on hold at your local library. Even if it isn't in stock at your local branch, your librarian can borrow most titles from other libraries in your region. You'll be notified when it's ready for pick up. Or, choose from a long list of titles to download for free from your library's website.
by jayatcnet375 May 5, 2009 9:46 AM PDT
In any form, hard-disk failure is when, not if. My shelves of books will be there until my kid wants them.
Commenters who think news is free because it is online are just unwilling to pay their share of the cost of gathering, editing and presenting news. Quality always has a cost, as does this democracy/republic we call the U.S.A. Good citizenship demands voluntary ongoing payment for news. That's how you protect the availability of the professionals who do the digging into what miscreants seek to hide. Informed citizenship is not possible without high-quality news. Despots thrive only when newspapers aren't doing their jobs. Television is entertainment. Newspapers are hard work, for which its professionals need a living wage. Being willing to support high-quality sources of news, competently edited, so they are available to do the daily journalism which informs citizens who are willing to take the time to read the details so they can intelligently vote is a foundation stone of participatory democracy. This is part of the eternal vigilance needed to safeguard democracy. It never was true that sound bites adequately inform, and never will be. Careless citizens risk losing their freedoms. So, too, for those who are unwilling to pay their fair share.
by leoncarpenter01 May 5, 2009 9:59 AM PDT
@jayatcnet375

Yes hard disk failure is a matter of when. It's a good thing you can back up your kindle purchases from your kindle management page. It's also a good thing that Amazon keeps a running track of all kindle books and subscriptions which can be downloaded again should you delete them or suffer a hard drive failure.
by make_or_break May 5, 2009 6:22 PM PDT
jayatcnet375: hope you moved those bookshelves from under that upstairs bathroom. No telling WHEN that old drum trap under the tub will finally give way...can't deprive the kids of all of that old pulp of yours, can we?

sourpathetic: You know...I always wonder about all those strange stains I find in those library books. Well, it's probably too much information we don't want to know anyways...

Save a tree (or a dozen or two) and spare yourself from the clutter, get an eReader...Kindle or otherwise.
by edcase512 May 5, 2009 6:57 AM PDT
So many comments on age..it's funny. Truly if it and its predecessors are targeted at the over 40 demographic it's a very smart move.
Most of us don't feel the need to be"cool" (sorry Apple) but we do appreciate functionality and in general many within my age group has the disposable income to make it a "why not" purchase.
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by hank_chinaski May 5, 2009 7:34 AM PDT
The "cool" brings functionality, edcase. Live free & be sexy over 40... Apple's touch is intuitive learning & it brightens the user experience brilliantly. Go play in an apple store, - you'll see!
by mouserider May 5, 2009 8:19 AM PDT
There's always indubitably the comment asking about the lack of "backlight" in almost every feedback about eBook readers.

If you have not seen an eBook reader like the Kindle or the Sony Reader, just go look at one or at least read up on them on Web first, they do not use typical LCD technology but what is collectively known as e-paper technology. In the case of most current eBook readers, an Electrophoretic display, which cannot currently be backlit.

While this technology still has obvious shortcomings like poor refresh rates, lack of a useable color version and cannot be "backlit", it does have unique advantages quite well suited for eBooks.

I'm not sure if I'd like a backlight even if they could backlight it. The display clarity is fantastic on e-paper and because it uses reflected light rather than "transmitted" light (backlit or phosphorescence), it is far less straining to the eye to read over a long period.

The other big advantage of this form of display is it doesn't really draw much power to keep the display on, most power is drawn when refreshing the display. The Sony Readers, for example, can easily perform thousands of page-turns and days of reading before needing a recharge.

When you think about reading, especially a novel, the most time is spent on a static pages being displayed, so this advantage is big.

As for larger screen eBooks, this anticipated Kindle isn't the first either, the iRex iLiad spots an 8.1 inch display and touchscreen.

While I'm probably the minority, for me the Kindle's tight integration to Amazon's wireless store model is something I don't need. I don't buy books from stores as much as bringing with me hundreds of user manuals, reference materials, documentations and other non-purchased content in PDF and other formats.

With a good PDF display software, useable note-taking feature, search, bookmarks and very easy mechanism to transfer documents, the Sony Reader just works better for me.
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by Floyd_W May 5, 2009 12:40 PM PDT
I just picked up the Sony PRS-700 reader with the sidelit screen. Very nice to read on the subway platforms where the light is very low. Also nice to pick up and read at night when I can't sleep and don't want to turn on the lights or watch TV.
by Dr.Serendipitous May 5, 2009 8:42 AM PDT
A double-page (side by side) eBook reader with multiple bookmark recall capability will do the job for textbook use, but when Amazon is charging $400 for a single page, small screen reader, we can expect what that would entail in terms of affordability.

Incidentally, I can't imagine studying chemistry without color illustrations?how are they going to show which atom is hydrogen, oxygen, etc., in graphical illustrations without color? Not impossible, but certainly not learning-friendly.

It would seem, at least at this stage, the new Amazon gadget in schoolroom is designed to give less (to students) for more (to Amazon). Profit at the expense of knowledge?how refreshing that capitalism is still alive in this country!
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by Mergatroid Mania May 5, 2009 10:49 AM PDT
Considering how Amazon restricts where you can buy the content you can read on their devices, I'm surprised anyone would buy one at all.
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by ziplizard May 5, 2009 12:03 PM PDT
That's a flat out lie. You can add any eBook to your Kindle that you have. Many sites offer mobipocket versions of books for you to buy or you can upload txt files. Additionally, there is software that will convert eBooks to Kindle-friendly formats for you.

Oh, and no, there is no charge for Amazon to convert files for you, too, if you don't use their Whispernet service to do it so don't try to bring that up.

From a 24 year old Kindle user
by bhartman35 May 5, 2009 11:39 PM PDT
@ziplizard:

It's not exactly true that you can add any ebook to your Kindle that you have. Not without walking into a legal gray area, at any rate.

While it's true that you can put any unprotected ebook on the Kindle (assuming it's in a format the Kindle can read, which most unprotected books probably would be), copy-protected (aka DRM'ed) books are another matter. If you buy from an outfit like Mobipocket (even though Amazon owns them) or Fictionwise, and you buy a DRM'ed book, you'll have to strip off the DRM before you can load it on to the Kindle. It can certainly be done with the right software, but it's technically a violation of Amazon's terms of service, and a possible violation of the DMCA. (I'm not arguing that such use is actually *wrong*, if all you're doing is removing the protection on your own purchased book to read on your own Kindle, but that doesn't necessarily mean the law makes that distinction.)
by molotov May 5, 2009 12:27 PM PDT
So the unit is going to be 3-4 inches bigger... and thus use more e-ink and as a result cost even more then the old unit - while utilizing the same gray background, gray letter color scheme. The issue at hand is still an issue; there is absolutely no contrast! I have informed people about this before; the books people have been reading since Guttenberg press have had clearly black letters on a white, yellow-hue paper. E-ink is just an unfinished product that is being accepted, to a degree, because our society' quality standards are falling. Just look at the quality of majority of videos broadcasted on YouTube.
You don't expect me to watch YouTube on a 42 inch screen, yet Amazon and Eink vendor expect me to read books on a gray/gray screen - bigger or not - the issue is still outstanding. Unless they choose to fix that tomorrow; this bigger reader is a fluke, even if it is going to be unveiled in Lower Manhattan.
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by davidrpaige May 5, 2009 2:28 PM PDT
I can't believe you have an issue with the contrast on these eReaders. To say that it's gray/gray is ridiculous. The "paper" is an off-white with, yes, a slight gray tint. The text on the other hand is a definite black. If you have an issue with the new eReader's contrast, it's not the device, it's your eyes. Better go to an optometrist now.
by molotov May 6, 2009 5:15 AM PDT
Davidpaige; believe it senor!
by Raziel66 May 5, 2009 12:28 PM PDT
I'm 22, a college student, and a proud owner of a Kindle 2. Depending on what this new model will do and add, I will have no reservations about buying it for my schoolbooks. My school already used a lot of ebooks but they don't always display properly on my Kindle. Hopefully this will remedy that!
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by ReVeLaTeD May 5, 2009 5:23 PM PDT
Needs a backlight. Period. Disregarding everything else, it's got to have a good backlight. And yes, it can be done without sacrificing image quality using the contrast settings of the Kindle 1.
Reply to this comment
by darkguardian May 5, 2009 10:56 PM PDT
The real question besides the color issue is the price. Is the the price going to be too high? Second, is completion. Net books are hot right now. Some software and the net book is an e-book. What about the iphone? iphones getting better all the time and their have color. Steve Job can take an iphone and bam an e-book is born minus the phone. Also, I'm tired of basic white. Make them colorful and personalized. Blue, red, green!! Durability will kill it. It's got to be as rugged as a book. Period. I lug about three-four books everywhere I go. One tablet saves weight and trees.
Reply to this comment
by darkguardian May 5, 2009 11:17 PM PDT
The real question besides the color issue is the price. Is the price going to be too high? Second, is competition. Net books are hot right now. Add some software and the net book is an e-book. What about the iphone? iphones getting better all the time and their have color. Steve Job can take an iphone and BAM!! --an e-book is born minus the phone. Also, I'm tired of basic white. Make them colorful and personalized. Blue, red, green!! Durability will kill it. It's got to be as rugged as a book. Period. I lug about three-four books everywhere I go. One tablet saves weight and trees.
Reply to this comment
by skycorgan May 6, 2009 5:35 AM PDT
As a 30 year old Kindle user, the biggest benefit is that I have the content when I leave the home. This means I don't have to wait for the New York Times "app" to download every article every single time.

Often I can't get a fast Internet connection in places such as the train, or in transit terminals. For example, in the airport, if I can't get a real strong signal on my iPhone, I have to walk around until I get a signal and stay there until I am done reading. With the Kindle, even those rare times when I couldn't get a signal on the WhisperNet, I could walk down the concourse, get a signal, buy a book, and walk back.

I travel for a week at a time, if not longer on occassion. I can't load my carry-on with a library of books. When I commute to work on the train, I can slip my super thin Kindle in my backpack, and pull it out and relax on a two hour train ride.

The Kindle has it's purpose... those who don't want to wait for the Internet to catch up to our reading.
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by skrubol May 11, 2009 9:31 AM PDT
How is it that people keep bringing up the iPhone as competition to the Kindle? The screen on this new Kindle is over 7 times the size and 6 times the resolution of the 3.5" iPhone screen. It's kinda like comparing a home theater system to a laptop for watching movies.
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by alphasun4 May 19, 2009 10:10 AM PDT
This new unit seems good but I think we shall soon see foldable, larger-format screens based on polymers that incorporate the electronics, including the controls, in the flexible or foldable screen.
I think we will end up in a year or two with something that slips into your pocket and opens out to about A3 widthx A4 height.
Glasses or visors are already emerging and perhaps they will predominate eventually.
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About Fully Equipped

Executive Editor David Carnoy has been covering electronics for CNET since 2000, arriving at the company just as "that whole Internet bust thing" happened. Early on, he launched CNET's cell phone coverage, earning him the nickname "Wireless Dave," then moved on to bigger and broader things. Hunkered down in New York City, he oversees CNET's Home and Hardware reviews, which includes all things related to home theater, PC, and digital imaging. Fully Equipped covers the gamut of gadgets and gizmos and, to keep things lively, Carnoy likes to alternate between writing useful, advice-oriented pieces or thought-provoking columns with inflammatory headlines designed to elicit commentary from readers. Fully Equipped is the longest continuously running column on CNET.com.

For older columns, read the Fully Equipped archive (2002-2008).

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