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Comments on: EV battery tech compared

A variety of battery technologies for electric cars are compared in a chart.

Add a Comment (Log in or register) (7 Comments)

by Joe Real July 9, 2009 12:48 PM PDT

Wayne,

I was hoping to see the comparison with Lead-Carbon batteries. These are more promising than the Advanced Lead Acid Batteries and almost comes close to the power density of Lithium Ion batteries but at just 10% of the cost when mass produced. Here's a few links about lead-carbon batteries:

http://www.sandia.gov/ess/About/docs/craft.
http://www.altdotenergy.com/2009/01/could-lead-carbon-batteries-be-energy-storage-game-changer/
http://www.autobloggreen.com/tag/lead+carbon+battery/

Joe

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by Joe Real July 9, 2009 12:51 PM PDT: Here's what Axion claims in their website about Lead-Carbon batteries:

Design Features of Axion's PbC® Technology

Rapid Recharge
PbC® technology is well suited to capture the intermittent power generated by renewable energy producers resulting in improved performance, productivity, reliability and profitability.

Heavy-duty Design
PbC® batteries for renewable energy will be designed and built for maximum energy storage and very long useful lives.

Minimal Maintenance
Axion's PbC® battery is a sealed unit and requires virtually no maintenance resulting in low operating costs.

Sustainability
Our new PbC® battery can be recycled in existing lead acid battery recycling facilities. This allows the lead, plastic, and acid to be reused in new PbC® Batteries.

Manufacturability
PbC® batteries have been designed to be manufactured in any of the dozens of existing lead acid battery facilities in the US as well as the hundreds of others world wide. This eliminates the need for hundreds of millions of dollars in capital to build new advanced battery facilities in the US that do not currently exist. Since existing equipment will be utilized new investments will not be required to manufacture our products.

Really worth including in the discussion, just my opinion.; Like this


by LaTene_Man July 9, 2009 12:53 PM PDT: What about nickel iron? NiFe batteries are used in mining and can withstand thousands of recharges.; Like this Reply to this comment


by ppgreat July 9, 2009 1:43 PM PDT: Don't put all your eggs in one basket. Blend available energy sources into a cost effective solution and you're not reliant on the "next generation source of energy.

My friend works at this company and they have a very common sense solution:

http://www.indypowersystems.com; Like this Reply to this comment


by carlhage July 10, 2009 12:40 PM PDT: Note this chart has a modification date of 2001, the numbers are way off, and what's in production/laboratory is off (though many are still in the lab after 10 years). It also doesn't include the new lithium phosphate/titanate batteries used for the Prius plug-in conversions and to be used in the Volt and future Toyota plug-ins. Ten years ago, it looked like Li-polymer was the way of the future. I guess it would be nice to make a new chart on Wikipedia or something.

The Li-Ion's are not in the lab, they are in production in large volumes from the laptop industry. These are used by the Tesla. They are not too expensive/kWh (<$1/Wh), but don't have much power (W) so you need lots of them ($30K worth), and the life is only 500 cycles or so.

The new lithium technology is not in volume production (you can't buy 1000 kWh of batteries unless you front the money for a new factory), currently costs <$2/Wh, but has higher power (low $/W, high W/kg, W/l) and lasts 5-10,000 cycles.; Like this Reply to this comment


by gmhendo July 13, 2009 2:48 PM PDT: Good to see batteries get some attention, especially since they are so vital to the success of EV's and hybrids . Carlhage draws attention to the age of the chart - maybe that could be up-dated Ed?

I did read that a fast charge battery was being developed. The article implied that a battery could be recharged fully in about five minutes, making it comparable to a gas station stop. If this battery does see production, then it goes a long way to un-hobbling the EV's current short range characteristic.

There are a number of side issues too. Firstly, the Prius re-charge when decelerating is around 10% back to the battery. This new battery has something around 70% re-charge, and that will add efficiency into the car.

Secondly, Big Oil can't be ignored. They have billions tied up in plant, equipment and property as gas stations. The fast charge batteries can be recharged at home, but that's an overnight charge. Most homes don't have the electric supply capacity to fast charge. So if the oil companies start providing a fast charge service, they have a shot at maintaining a return on their roadside infrastructure. Ironic as it seems, Big Oil can support EV's. I think they have little choice in that matter.

Lastly the service life of the batteries is important. The thought of replacing the batteries at a cost of thousands is daunting, and surely affects the market up-take of EV's and hybrids. New batteries with greatly enhanced power cycle ability/longevity will do much to help the transition to EV's and hybrids.(See Calhage comment) And of course a longer battery life means a better total life cycle environmental outcome.; Like this Reply to this comment


by SethGorton August 4, 2009 3:00 PM PDT: Apparently there is an old type of battery that was done away with but is now back and somewhat better. Lithium Sulfide (or maybe sulfate) are now fixing to be used by the US government and produced by a company from Arizona i believe. Dont quote me entirely on this information it is from memory of an article I read about 3 or 4 months ago and cant seem to remember where i read it.; Like this Reply to this comment

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