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"Finally apple moves to the latest intel chip technology"
4.5 starson by javawolfpackPros: Nehalem microarchitecture (core i7 Arrandale)
Improved graphicsCons: SD card slot instead of ExpressCard/34 slot
Summary: I'm going to start with, CNET should remove most of these reviews, you can review a product you don't currently own with out issue, assuming you have a clue what the technology contained in the product actually is. Additionally how this technology stacks up against the rest of the products on the market. I am a rarity apparently of the other reviewers in that I have degrees in computer science, computer engineering, and electrical engineering, and I'm currently pursuing a doctorate in computer science. I can make my current macbook pro (2.4GHz core 2 duo w/ 4GB RAM and 7200RPM HDD) slow to a crawl... so yes I actually push my computer to its physical limits, unlike a few of the other reviewers who couldn't tell if there was a speed boost by the sole fact they hardly have their computers do more than surf the web.
Ok as promised, I have gotten a chance to see what an improvement the new macbook pro is over my old one, which was still a very nice machine; however, for some very specific tasks and under a few conditions it would become problematic as it didn't have the power to handle the load I was placing on it. I have run two different virtual machines on the new macbook pro and don't notice a slow down in my regular applications that i use or any lag in the mouse or other interfaces that did occur on my old macbook pro. It has matched my expectations and exceeded them... I can restart a virtual machine in nearly no time and it behaves as if it was its own machine with out much trouble.
I have moved from a core 2 quad to core i7, so previous 4 core technology to the latest 4 core technology and can verify that the nehalem microarchitecture offers a notable improvement even if you don't increase the number of cores on the system. I have been able to now encode video on my desktop at nearly 1/3 the time it used to take, which is a remarkable improvement. And even better I now no longer notice a slow down when I'm encoding video and want to use the computer for another task as well. So the many complaints that apple isn't using a 4 core version of the core i7 shouldn't put people off from wanting to buy.
Additionally, concerning the core i7 that apple is using. They chose to wait for the latest update to the mobile processor line, though still called core i7, is codenamed Arrandale, and is far different from the 4 core mobile chip or Clarksdale. The main difference would be the the Arrandale includes integrated graphics into its chip, which means that you don't actually need discrete graphics, though intel still hasn't gotten these graphics to be as good as some of the discrete options... so apple apparently created their own solution to allow you to switch to a discrete solution with superior graphics when you need to, or opt for the more energy efficient solution when you don't. Thus saving power. Additionally the Arrandale uses far less power than the Clarksdale, which is another reason apple chose this chip.
Honestly would you rather you could use your laptop w/ out having to be tethered to a power outlet, or have the bigger chip with more cores? I would rather get the speed boost of the Arrandale core i7 and not have to be tethered to a power outlet... I used to have a desktop replacement laptop, that I couldn't take with me anywhere because it needed so much power. Apple wanted this to be something you could actually use on the go. So yes it has less cores than some of the other core i7 mobile chips, but its a newer more efficient chip, designed for actual mobile use with a notable speedup over any core 2 duo chip, just look at the benchmarks (hope you can use google to find these yourself).
Another note people have brought forward as a point of contention is the fact the bus speed is less than some of the other "core i7" laptop options offered by PC vendors... this is again along the same line of this is a different core i7, and the fact the Clarksdale has a 1333MHz memory bus whereas the Arrandale has a 1066MHz bus. But as the Arrandale chip apple is using offers a higher clock speed/throughput you'd be hard to tell the difference between it and even the highend Clarksdale unless your running some extreme multi-threaded processes (and lets face it almost nothing is multi-threaded, more the fact its hard to program) But the core i7 Arrandale, that apple is using, has nearly a GHz over even the core i7 920XM (or the extreme edition chip) that a few people were upset wasn't offered.
I guess the bottom line is, do your homework... actually read up on the components your comparing before you start saying that something better is out there, or that something is cheaper yet comparable. Just because its a core i7, doesn't mean its the same line of core i7...
Ok chipset out of the way, the mini display port is a far better standard than VGA, HDMI, and even DVI (which I would prefer)... read up on it, or at the very least there are converters which don't cost that much so get one of those if its an issue. Hell the only time i connect my laptop to anything its projectors which all use VGA, so I got a mini-dp to VGA converter when i bought my new macbook pro, my current one offers DVI, and came with a DVI-> VGA convertor... And I have my mac mini hooked to my TV via VGA as well, as it isn't as glitchy as trying to do it via HDMI. HDMI is a pain, and i'm glad they didn't include it.
Well that's my rant... I have ordered one of the new macbook pros (17" anti-glare 2.66GHz core i7, 8GB RAM, 128SSD) which'll arrive this coming week, but after reading many of these reviews I figured I needed to make some clarifications people apparently are having over the technology.
Updated on Apr 21, 2010
My 64bit geekbench score was over 6100... impressive since older macbooks apparently scored between 3000-4000... though my score may be a bit high, I think most users are likely to be in the 5200 range though. Anyway the new macbook pro definitely performs... anyway if you have any questions drop me a reply.
- 19 replies to this review
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hey, first of all, its nice to finally see someone with actual education raving about mac! all the other students in my class hate mac and rant about PC, but, mac's where it's at for me also.
my question is this, i am currently doing an assignment that entails Hyper-Virtualisation, systems include free-NAS server 08 R2, ESX 3.5 and requires fail-over clustering. The equipment at school is minimalistic to say the least and super glitchy so i was considering running these systems within a virtual environment on my macbbok (I just upgraded the RAM to 8gb) do you think it could hack it? i mean, i would have just done it but i can't risk frying my machine!
also, have you noticed any lag after upgrading to the new OSX lion 10.7??? and do you have any suggestions on resolving the issue??
cheers
sarene -
Nice writeup.
When running multiple VM's on your system what drive are they running from?
I see you have a rather small SSD. I have been considering adding a small SSD for OSX only and moving the 500GB 7200 to optical bay and run VM's from FW800 -
hi javawolfpack! can i use 3DMax2011 on window7, mac intel i7? i really want to buy the mac pro but i have to be sure that 3DMax and other programs associated w/ it (like vray) will run w/o a glitch. what would you recommend? bootcamp vs. parallels? it will be my first mac, if ever, but i used macs before. thanks!
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Hey javawolfpack. great review. i must admit i didn't understand a lot of the technicalities that you said but its nice to read a great review coming from some user who is an expert on computers. I have a question though. I dont think i can afford the price of a macbook pro right now. Is there any other laptop matching the performance and the battery life of the mac pro thats relatively cheaper? like 300-400 dollars cheaper maybe. ill be using it mostly to edit hd videos (1080p). Thanks!
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Thank you for your offer of help. I want to buy a desktop replacement laptop. Currently, I use the iMac Intel Core 2 Duo 2.33GHz with 3Gb Memory and I find it a tad slow for my purposes. Typical daily uses are a lot of internet surfing typically with five to ten windows open at a time, listening to iTunes, viewing photos, using Quicken and Word. I'm at my desk for many hours at a time and I like to flit back and forth throughout the day from one activity to the other quickly so I tend to keep a lot of windows open at once. Speed is very important to me and I am willing to pay for the best performance. Which processor should I buy? Should I upgrade to 8GB of RAM and do I need to upgrade the Hard Drive? (Probably wouldn't spend an extra $650-1300 unless you make a really good case for that, but would consider $200 if you think it would make a perceivable difference). Once again, many, many thanks for your time.
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@lilcliff yes, you can run a copy of windows inside of the Mac OS in a Virtual Machine. It is what I do when I need any windows functionality. I don't like boot camp myself, because I only need windows on a rare occasion and never need the full functionality of the graphics processor, because if I wanted to play games I would do that on my actual windows gaming box. In your case I think you would be fine running a VM. Oh and check my previous reply to jonreiter that Parallels is my least favorite choice for the virtualization environments available for the mac. VMware Fusion 3 is what I use, and I've had experience with virtual box that would make it a second recommended choice (harder to configure/use though). I have had bad experiences with parallels 2 versions ago, and don't see any real reason to try them again. Hope that helps.
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@brian neary I am not sure what the DVI-d cables are that you mentioned; however, you can get a mini-display-port to DVI adapter and then connect standard DVI cables to that, which is what I would do. Hope that helps.
@jonreiter I'm not sure if your saying you have a 15" core 2 duo or the new 15" (dual core) core i7 macbook pro... I know the core 2 duo was less functional at handling virtualization. Additionally I never found parallels to be very functional. I prefer VMware Fusion and if I didn't own that I would be using Virtual Box, which is harder to use but nearly as functional. There could be a configuration issue too? Still I haven't used Parallels since version 3, and was so unhappy with it I gave up on virtual machines on the mac until I got onto the beta for VMware Fusion 2, I have Fusion 3 now. -
Thanks for your very informative comments on the Macbook Pro. Could you help me with a questions as I am a business user who is trying to determine the best choice for a 15" laptop and my biggest concern is issues around using the Mac for some applications that require Windows/PC style programs. For instance, I have a video monitoring system in my facility, and wanted to hear your comments on a good Mac approach to being able to view the IP camerca (Video) feed without the jitter that I would enclunter if I did it over a RDP type connection to the desktop PC application I have at my home office. I would also appreciate any comments or recommendations you have about Mac approaches to running Windows. What is the best approach. You spoke about virtualization. Could I create a virtual machine on the Mac and run Windows on it? (as opposed to booting separately into Windows using Boot Camp or running aprogram like Parallels? Thanks for your help.
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Apple mac works fine for me
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Apple mac works fine for me
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I have the 15 inch dual core Macbook and I am running Parallels 5. And I can tell you my machine slows to a crawl whe I use it. In addition to that there simply are not enough programs for my computer. I am selling this and going back to PCs. The laptop is good but just not right for many business applications.
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I have a 15" MacPro i5 for my wife. Works wonderfully. I am about to buy the fully loaded 17" MacPro but, after reading the boards, I have a question. There seems to be a problem connecting a non apple monitor as a second screen. Apparently the old 2009 machines had a normal DVI connection. The new machines provide DVI-d cables which don't work well and are only four inches long. Do you know of a solution?
Thanks
BFN -
@conroy17 The 7200rpm drive is definitely a good choice over a 5400rpm drive, I haven't had anything slower than a 7200rpm in any of my laptops prior to this new one. I will say the speed increases of a SSD are noticable and as they have no moving parts are more resilient to jostling. Its a costly investment and well I care more about speed than space as I have over 10TB of storage available as network shares accessible from my laptop. The biggest question is what are you going to be doing with your laptop? As most users wouldn't be able to push their computers to the point the speed boost would be as noticeable.
Not sure if that entirely answered your question, but a SSD is basically a super-sized USB flash drive. So very fast, near memory speeds, and doesn't have moving parts. If I was you I'd stick w/ the 500GB 7200rpm drive, unless you have some reason for the added speed. Let me know if you have more questions or if this didn't help. -
@TNcaptainQT the 15" provides the new intel chip whereas the 13" is still running a core 2 duo. As to apple products release they are all rumor until they come out and so I have no idea. As far as using a mac they are really simple... my mom curses having to use her windows machine at work since she got one of my old macs.
@lukas10 The question would be more what are you planning on using the computer for. If all your doing is sending emails/word processing than you likely won't notice much if any difference. I run multiple virtual machines on occasion so I'd notice a difference between an i5/i7 though one of my friends has the new i5 and is raving about it as well.
Sorry it took so long for a response, didn't see that I had new ones till recently :( -
Hi,
I saw that you selected a 128gb solid state hard drive. I am going off to college soon and looking to buy a laptop. I selected the macbook pro as the best choice, but anyway my question is. Is a solid state hard drive much better then a normal hard drive. I was originally planning on getting the 500gb 7200rpm hard drive because of its space and the added speed. I would love to hear your response and any other thought that you have
thanks,
Conroy17 -
You obviously are more educated in this area than I am. In your opinion, is it worth the extra $200 to upgrade from the i5 to the i7 processor in the 15"? In other words, when would the user notice the increaased performance of the i7 over the i5?
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Your review was very helpful!
Questions! What is the main difference btwn the 13" vs the 15"?
Do you if apple will come out with another laptop anytime soon?
I've never owned a Mac but I am willing to switch over from a PC because I am tired of having issues.
I don't know much about Macbooks so some insider information would be greatly appreciated!
I don't mind spending money, I just want my bang for my buck!
Thank you. -
@7buddhas, your welcome... I just got my new macbook pro earlier today, looking forward to putting it through its paces and will likely add my use details here when I do. But so far meeting my expectations.
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Thank you for this insightful review. Very useful!
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